[98] Grenades

[Deathlike2]

I've done some experimentation with it.. and found some differences to Strife what ZDoom does..

1) Initial height
If you warp to map 28 in the original Strife (I've been using it to do most of my testing), and just fire the grenades, the height of both grenades reach the height of the door that you are shooting out of..

In ZDoom, it seems to fall short of that height..

2) Number of bounces
If you shoot it.. it bounces 2 times.. and on the 3rd time it hits the floor, the grenade explodes...

In ZDoom, it seems to bounce at least 3 times... (I think it is based on the number of bounces, but I'm not too sure)

3) Grenades bouncing off the wall
It is hard to tell what affects it.. some walls seem to "get the grenade" to stop at the wall.. and on some walls it seems to deflect off of it in a small angle

In ZDoom, it bounces off them freely (with better physics).. I don't think it's an easy fix.. I find it not worthwhile to fix since I kind of like it... this point really doesn't have to be dealt with... but something to take note of..

4) When a grenade explodes
The only time the grenade explodes is when it hits the floor a 3rd time.

In ZDoom, the grenade explodes on impact on an actor (enemy) or whenever it explodes.. (whichever comes first)

5) Grenades and bodies of water (water, sewer water, etc.)
Referring to a portion of this thread:
http://forum.zdoom.org/potato.php?t=5173

When a grenade hits water, it immediately explodes.

In ZDoom, this simple attribute doesn't seem to apply at all.

6) When grenades hit an enemy
When they hit an enemy, they get hurt.. how much damage they take.. I do not know..

In ZDoom, it seems to follow what I said about ZDoom in bug #4...

[Graf Zahl]

That's not surprising because ZDoom uses Hexen's bouncing physics and I don't expect this to change.

Regarding your issues:

1) I can't say anything about that. But ZDoom's missile spawning code is different from the one in the original engines so some discrepancies are to be expected.
2) The original grenades decrease their countdown counter (reactiontime) by 50% when bouncing. ZDoom doesn't implement this feature
3) That's the result of Hexen's better physics. Why revert to the much worse original? I disassembled the code a year ago and this particular piece was a complete mess and contained bugs, imprecisions and other not so nice stuff. This is not worth bothering.
4) Again Hexen's physics. And this particular oddity makes them much more powerful than they are supposed to be it seems.
6) sounds rather strange though.


But I have to ask why you are so utterly pedantic about it. Most people are just glad that the game works at all even if not all its quirks and oddities are preserved.

[Belial]

3) Grenades stop at N/S oriented walls, bounce slightly off E/W oriented walls. If a wall is angled weird stuff happens .

2, 4 and 5 are the ones that should be fixed IMO. Especially the 'impact on actor' thing.

[Graf Zahl]

Agreed. And 3 should be left alone. This was clearly a bug (or just plain shitty code) in Strife.

And let's not forget the bouncing factor. I already said this in other threads but Strife uses 50%, not 70% like Hexen.

[Deathlike2]

I think it's important to get most of the details right.. as it is now.. the grenades are much more lethal to yourself than your enemies.. If you implement most of what was occuring in the original Strife, the grenades are more friendly because you have a chance to survive/evade (though shooting them when you are in front of a wall will still be suicide, but that's normal).

[Belial]

as it is now.. the grenades are much more lethal to yourself than your enemies

Nonsense.

[Enjay]

Nonsense.

Agreed. I think they are very, very useable.

[Deathlike2]

Nonsense.

Well, I guess it's exaggerated.. but what I meant is.. you have a fairly good chance of hurting yourself..

The way grenades are dealt with in ZDoom makes it slightly tougher to use... particularly if you were to hit a crusader from a short distance.. In vanilla Strife, you could easily avoid taking damage... in ZDoom, you would take some damage easily (The weapon in its current state is kinda nifty.)

[Belial]

Well, the only times when I'm close to a crusader is when I'm attacking it with the flamethrower. If you're forced to use the grenade launcher the way you described it then you just screwed up somewhere along the way. Nothing wrong with the weapon.

[Deathlike2]

Well, the only times when I'm close to a crusader is when I'm attacking it with the flamethrower. If you're forced to use the grenade launcher the way you described it then you just screwed up somewhere along the way. Nothing wrong with the weapon.

I meant short-mid range.. Obviously it is a better mid-range weapon than short range...

The way it seemed to work best in vanilla Strife was that if you shoot it in a way that it bounces in front of your target, you would pretty much hit it. You would have a small amount of time to get away from the target. In ZDoom, since it hits on impact to any actor (Crusader for example), you wouldn't have the time to avoid the splash damage.

Then again, I preferred using the rocket launcher vs the Crusader simply because you could have so much ammo to use (200 rockets with the backpack is more than you will ever need)

[Graf Zahl]

Nonsense.

Agreed. There's a difference between a bug and being nitpicky. I'd rather have a weapon that behaves the same no matter in which direction you use it as opposed to one that is highly dependent on the direction you are firing.

Fixing bugs is ok but re-introducing the original bugs is certainly not.

[TheDarkArchon]

4) Again Hexen's physics. And this particular oddity makes them much more powerful than they are supposed to be it seems.

Counter balanced by the fact WP grenades's explodo-damage is no longer independant of height.

[Graf Zahl]

Which is a good thing IMO.

[TheDarkArchon]

Agreed. It would have made the game (esp. the programmer fight) far too easy (XP user, before anyone says anything.)

[Belial]

Umm... WTF? I've played that exact part of the game a few hours ago and phosphorous grenades sure as hell don't make a difference. In fact, they are quite useless. Normal grenades and missiles are the most useful weapons.