Model Conversion Request

[Enjay]

OK, I know that this is a long shot but I may as well ask. Does anyone have the ability to convet ghoul2 (*.glm) format models to MD3s? The ghoul format was used for a number of models in "Jedi Outcast" (and I think, perhaps, "Jedi Academy" too).

Specifically, I am trying to get one of these in to GZDoom:



I've always like the look of these robots and I even released a ripped sprite set of it many years ago. I've had a little success myself. I can import the model in to Milkshape but it cannot load in the animations. So, I'd have to reanimate it manually and 1) I'm rubbish at doing animations and 2) Milkshape's animation features are pretty buggy. I've had a go but my animations simply weren't very good. I can also open the model in ModView - a tool that comes with the Jedi Outcast modding kit. It allows opening and viewing of the model and all its animations but it doesn't do anything useful as far as me getting it in to MD3 format (it's what the above screenshot was taken with).

If the whole thing can't be done, it's really the walking animation that is the most important. I simply haven't been able to make anything as convincing looking as the animation that is in the original model. Standing around an firing guns is comparatively easy, as is death (although there are some very nice death animations in the original model).

Like I said, it's a long shot and I don't really expect that anyone will have the tools to do it but, just in case, the model can be grabbed here.

If anyone needed the ModView program too, I could upload that. I *think* it is quite fussy about file locations and expects the files it opens to be in a directory that looks like the game location. eg, it didn't open the model for me when I had the file on my desktop but it opened it just fine from "C:\games\JediOutcast\GameData\base\models\players\mark1\model.glm".

[HellCattX]

I found this program if it helps, it makes sprites from 3d models.
http://news.hiperia3d.com/2009/04/cheap ... om-3d.html

[Enjay]

That's an interesting looking program and, if it does what it says it does, it could have saved me (and I'm sure a lot of other people) a lot of work in the past. I'll download the lite version and see how it gets on. However, in this case, it won't help because I actually want the model in game, not a sprite.

[ReX]

Specifically, I am trying to get one of these in to GZDoom:

Get the f*ck out of town! That looks awesome to have in a GZDooM mod.

Staying on topic, perhaps you should PM LWM, as she has done model animations for Chibi Rebellion. Not sure if she's done work with .glm format, though.

Also, I think Nash has done model animations too.

Also, also (and not to derail or sidetrack your thread), would you be able to help me out with my model request? It will probably take you all of 5 minutes to put the filing cabinet together. Thanks.

[Enjay]

Get the f*ck out of town! That looks awesome to have in a GZDooM mod.

Indeed. They really captivated me in the original game and I liked the fact that, although they are quite Star Warsy in style, they are also different enough to the standard Star Wars tech to be acceptable in non Star Wars mods.

I know that LWM is not a fan of animating models. The GLM format isn't an issue if someone is animating from scratch because the model, sans animation, can be imported into Milkshape and, from there, it could be exported in a format to suit almost any modelling program. It's just a question of someone with enough skill and patience, the right piece of software and enough time wanting to do it. Getting the original animations from the GLM would be nice though because some of them look pretty good. If there isn't anyone able to do the conversion though, I could use what I have done myself and maybe I could take a look at trying to animate it again. The basic walking cycle is 42 frames. If I was doing it manually, I'd probably cut that down quite a bit but probably not as much as my last attempt which I think was something like 8 frames and done "blind" ie without checking what the original animation looked like.

I've replied in your model request thread. It's a shame you hadn't posted earlier (or at least that I hadn't spotted the thread earlier) because I just spent a big chunk of today amusing myself making this:



This also comes from Jedi Outcast. Frankly, I can't remember anything about how this thing behaves in the original game. I can't even remember how big it is. So, I just set about animating it and giving it whatever behaviour and appearance I fancied. I particularly enjoyed messing with the death animation which I guarantee is very little like the original. One perplexing thing, the model that this thread is about (the walker robot) is in a directory called Mark1 inside the PK3. This much simpler robot is in a directory called Mark2. Now, aside from the fact that there seems to be very little technical similarity between the two (raising the question of whether they are really different marks of the same robot) the Mark2 seems far simpler than the Mark1 and I would normally expect it to be the other way around. Mind you, I would normally spell "mark" as "marque" in this context (perhaps the American spelling is different to the UK) so maybe they are just two models made by a guy called Mark.

Anyway, I didn't really do it for a release but if anyone wants to play around with it, a link is below. If anyone has any suggestions for improvements, particularly in the DECORATE, I'd be glad to hear them. Some of the model frames look much better with interpolation on but others really mess up. So I've set it to not be interpolated but I may spend some time splitting up which should be interpolated and which should not and putting them in different definitions. I *think* that can be done.

http://www.rowand.myzen.co.uk/njroller.pk3

Summon "njroller" to see it in game. GZDoom (and probably a relatively recent SVN) required.

Credits to:
Jedi Outcast for the model mesh and skin.
Either Doom3 or Revilution/Hunters Moon (I forget where I originally got them from) for some of the SFX sprites
Duke Nukem and Heretic for a few others
Goodness only knows who or where for the sounds. Not Jedi Outcast anyway. Some from one of those free sounds sites.
Me for the ancillary models and all the animation, DECORATE etc and generally messing around with any and all of the resources in the PK3 one way or another.

Programs used: DeePSea, SLADE3, Paint Shop Pro, GoldWave, Textpad and WinZip.

If anyone wants to use it, or anything else from the PK3 that I did, be my guest.

Right, I *think* that's everything covered.

[ReX]

I just spent a big chunk of today amusing myself making this:

Anyway, I didn't really do it for a release but if anyone wants to play around with it, a link is below..... GZDoom (and probably a relatively recent SVN) required.

That looks cool and I shall give it a whirl soon, although the bit about recent SVN does not bode well fo rme. I always stick to the latest official release, as I almost always build for the official release. As such I don't have anything but the last official version. I may make an exception just to try out your mod.

[Enjay]

I just tried it in the last official release and it won't work. The actor uses a flag that is newer than the last release. There are other ways to achieve what the actor flag does but, like I said, this wasn't really meant as a release and the next official GZDoom will have the flag.

[NeuralStunner]

That looks cool and I shall give it a whirl soon, although the bit about recent SVN does not bode well fo rme. I always stick to the latest official release, as I almost always build for the official release.

Not to hijack the topic, but I still don'r understand the reasoning behind this. (Most SVNs are not any less stable than the latest official, sometimes moreso.)

[ReX]

Not to hijack the topic, but I still don'r understand the reasoning behind this. (Most SVNs are not any less stable than the latest official, sometimes moreso.)

I don't have an issue with the stability. The main reason I am reluctant to do "development" work on a project using SVN is that many players don't RTFM, won't use the relevant SVN, and will find "bugs" when playing with the official version.

Admittedly, the last couple of times it was necessary to take advantage of specific features that were needed in the project development (and then coded by Graf or Eruanna), Graf has always obliged by releasing an official version with those features included.

[NeuralStunner]

I don't have an issue with the stability. The main reason I am reluctant to do "development" work on a project using SVN is that many players don't RTFM, won't use the relevant SVN, and will find "bugs" when playing with the official version.

To break down:

many players don't RTFM

The need to learn to. I for one won't limit myself to cater to their laziness.

won't use the relevant SVN

See above. Or if it's paranoia, their loss.

and will find "bugs" when playing with the official version.

And if they decide a bug is with the engine, being the non-RTFM types they'll ignore the "make sure it's not already fixed in a recent SVN version" stipulation, right?

Now, aside from the fact that there seems to be very little technical similarity between the two (raising the question of whether they are really different marks of the same robot) the Mark2 seems far simpler than the Mark1 and I would normally expect it to be the other way around. Mind you, I would normally spell "mark" as "marque" in this context (perhaps the American spelling is different to the UK) so maybe they are just two models made by a guy called Mark.

It's also possible that they originally used very similar models, but names were changed later and (for some reason) they didn't care to rename any resource paths. This can also be noted in games like Quake, where certain monsters seem to have undergone a name change. (Shalrath -> Vore, for example.)

[Enjay]

This can also be noted in games like Quake, where certain monsters seem to have undergone a name change. (Shalrath -> Vore, for example.)

And possibly Clink to Sabreclaw too.

[NeuralStunner]

"Knight", "Wizard", &c. It's hard to tell sometimes if there was a name change, or they just picked a simple internal name and formalized the designation later. (It could be that programming and design were happening simultaneously, and of course it's futile to search-and-replace the name in a bunch of source code that players won't be seeing anyway.)

Of course, it only takes one source code release and suddenly a bunch of guys think they're going to be smart and selectively refer to things by their in-code names, and worse, teach all the little modderlings to do the same.[/anotherrant]

[Enjay]

OK, well I've had a go at reconstructing the walking animation by hand. It's not great, but it doesn't look too awful:

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That is, of course, until you compare it to the original and you realise that much of the smoothness has gone, the legs wiggle around unnaturally and the hypnotic side-to-side sway simply doesn't exist.

---

[Blox]

Is your animation even interpolated? Because it doesn't look like it is.
The original is, however. Which is one of the reasons to why it's so butter smooth.

[Enjay]

Yeah, I nopticed that difference after I posted. The viewer for the original model - where I grabbed the frames for the gif from - interpolates the models by default and my animation is not interpolated in the screenshots that make up the gif for it.

The lack of sway is because the skeleton that I made for the animation wasn't sophisticated enough. There's actually quite a lot of movements and articulation around the "pelvis" area of the original and my skeleton didn't have the bones to allow that (and I'm not sure that I could have moved them convincingly even if it did).

The flakey movement of the legs in some places is due, in part at least, to the inaccuracy of the Milkshape and Misfit animation. I corrected as much as I could manually but there was only so much that I could do.