Z-Kart discussion

[XutaWoo]

Probably should be instant disqualification.

[ledillman]

Hey, just lurking around here should I post some screenies here?

Also, about what ChronoSeth said:

-"Powerups are something that should be worked out as well. How will they be acquired? Should the mod use random powerup pickups (as in Mario Kart), or have set powerups placed by the map author, or something else entirely? How will the powerups function?"

I think random pickup power-ups should be used (for example, the random sphere from skullag/zandronum).

-"How should liquids (water, nukage, etc) function? Slowing the player is obvious, but should nukage and lava cause direct damage to the player's cart?"

Nukage and lava should make some damage, but not too much.

This is my own opinion of course, so feel free to count it

[Shiny Metagross]

-"How should liquids (water, nukage, etc) function? Slowing the player is obvious, but should nukage and lava cause direct damage to the player's cart?"

Nukage and lava should make some damage, but not too much.

This is my own opinion of course, so feel free to count it

Your cart should blow up unless you're driving over shallow water, shallow lava and nukage should drain your health really quick. Other wise yeah you should just go boom.

[ChronoSeth]

I got bored, so I decided to write down some ideas for how the weapons and powerups might work.

---

Powerups:

Invulnerability - Obvious. Lasts about 5 seconds
Partial Invisibility - Duh. Lasts 10-15 seconds and counters homing projectiles.
Green Armor - Reduces damage by 30% for 30 seconds. Auto-use.
Blue Armor - Reduces damage by 50% for 20 seconds. Auto-use.
Berserk - Fully restores the cart's health, and the chainsaw deals vastly increased damage for 10-15 seconds.
Soulsphere - Restores 100% of the cart's health, up to 200%.
Turbosphere - Removes the cooldown between boosts for 10 seconds.
Doomsphere - Weapon damage is doubled for 5-10 seconds.
Backpack - Refills your current weapon's ammo.
Radiation suit - Grants immunity to environmental damage (except crushers) for about 20 seconds.

The megasphere is heavily redundant next to the rest of the items, so I left it out. Maybe it could be a fixed pickup placed by mappers. The radiation suit is basically only useful for enabling shortcuts, so I don't know if it's worth including.


Weapons:

Chainsaw - Default weapon, which is always accessible via a separate attack button. Damage comparable to the chaingun, but obviously very short range. Excessive use causes it to overheat, rendering it unusable for a few seconds (to prevent spamming).
Pistol - low accuracy, damage, and rate of fire, but better than nothing. Fifty shots.
Shotgun - moderate accuracy, low rate of fire, moderate damage, hitscan. Five shots.
Chaingun - Moderate accuracy, low damage, high rate of fire, hitscan. Thirty shots.
Barrel - Drops a barrel behind you, which explodes when shot or crashed into. Two shots.
Super Shotgun - Very low accuracy, low rate of fire, very high damage. Three shots.
Rocket Launcher - very high, high damage, very low rate of fire, slow projectile. Two shots, projectile tracks targets (?) and deals splash damage.
Plasma Gun - very high accuracy, moderate damage, very high rate of fire, fast projectile. Twenty shots.
BFG 9000 - very high accuracy, extreme damage, average projectile speed. Instantly destroys whatever it hits, tracks target (?). 1 shot.

The idea here is that more powerful weapons don't last as long, and are harder to use. The SSG, for example, would instantly destroy a cart with 100% health and no armour, but you'd have to be right next to it. The rocket launcher is devastating, but a determined player can outrun or outmaneuver the rockets and it comes with only two shots. The BFG 9000 would be incredibly rare to counterbalance its OP-ness. I'm not sure if the chainsaw is really necessary. The projectile weapons are only "accurate" in the sense that there's no random deviation - as in Doom, the player still has to compensate for the projectiles' travel time.


Other Items:

Health Bonus - Restores 5% of the cart's health, up to 150%.
Stimpack - Restores 20% of the cart's health.
Medikit - Restores 50% of the cart's health.

These would be directly placed by the mapper rather than coming from powerup pickups, so that players aren't screwed out of healing by RNG.

As for map hazards...

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Blue Water: Small speed reduction
Brown Water: Moderate speed reduction
Blood: Heavy speed reduction
Nukage: Moderate speed reduction, 5 damage per second
Lava: Heavy speed reduction, 10 damage per second
Crushers: Basically the same as Doom - halted movement and some damage if you get caught in one
Barrels: Detonate upon players crashing into or shooting them, damaging everyone nearby. Maybe about 80 damage if you're right next to one when it explodes. Presumably they'd respawn after a few seconds.

[raymoohawk]

sorry for being absent, im still alive! here is the dopefish with b frames:

dopekartwithb.PK3

(45.17 KiB) Downloaded 32 times

also i don't know if its still necessary but here is a tweaked version of the pinky i was doing



and a baron attempt

[raymoohawk]

Made these because I could.

those are friggin awesome!

[XutaWoo]

I don't really like the idea of that weapon system, to be honest. Think it'd be preferable to just go with single use / up to three items. Especially outside of health mode - all things would need to cause spin out / knock up, and having hitscans, especially in the totals of 50 shots, seems really bad for that.

Also, limiting it only to weapons is, well, limiting, especially considering that a lot of monsters are being turned into racers. Perhaps also take inspiration from monster attacks, reinterpretting them into forms that are more useful in a karting environment ( as in, imp balls could be the green shell of the game, arachnotron plasma and plasma gun send bursts of plasma in different patterns. )

Taking inspiration from hitscan weapons is fine, but ultimately almost everything should probably be a projectile.

[Shiny Metagross]

I don't really like the idea of that weapon system, to be honest. Think it'd be preferable to just go with single use / up to three items. Especially outside of health mode - all things would need to cause spin out / knock up, and having hitscans, especially in the totals of 50 shots, seems really bad for that.

Also, limiting it only to weapons is, well, limiting, especially considering that a lot of monsters are being turned into racers. Perhaps also take inspiration from monster attacks, reinterpretting them into forms that are more useful in a karting environment ( as in, imp balls could be the green shell of the game, arachnotron plasma and plasma gun send bursts of plasma in different patterns. )

Taking inspiration from hitscan weapons is fine, but ultimately almost everything should probably be a projectile.

Yeah but there's always those stupid racers who run over like 50 oil slicks, trust me, it would be funnier that way!

[ChronoSeth]

Especially outside of health mode - all things would need to cause spin out / knock up, and having hitscans, especially in the totals of 50 shots, seems really bad for that.

To be honest I didn't put much thought into the actual numbers. The pistol could be implemented entirely differently, but I'm not sure how else the chaingun or plasma rifle could work.

Not everything has to completely disable a player - in theory, outside of "health mode" the chaingun would only screw up a player's driving with sustained fire.

Also, limiting it only to weapons is, well, limiting, especially considering that a lot of monsters are being turned into racers. Perhaps also take inspiration from monster attacks, reinterpretting them into forms that are more useful in a karting environment ( as in, imp balls could be the green shell of the game, arachnotron plasma and plasma gun send bursts of plasma in different patterns. )

Monster attacks wouldn't really add much variety, though, other than how they look. Almost all of them are either based on the player's weapons or only involve a simple melee or projectile attack, which means they'd have to have completely different behaviour compared with the originals to be interesting.

It depends on how much Doom's influence should be emphasized. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other, though.

[raymoohawk]

maybe the pickups that give a marine weapons give monsters an additional attack, kinda how in Bdoom baron has fist, fireball and clap

[XutaWoo]

Like I said, the imp fireballs could be like the green shells - they bounce around wildly and generally can still be usable if you aren't too accurate with them. Which is important in a fast-pace game where you don't have perfect control over your orientation.

As for more examples, plasma gun fire could be fired in the general direction of the kart with some spread while arachnotron plasma fires all at once and in a perfect circle. Cacodemon gasballs could be lobbed a set distance, and explode rather catastrophically and probably over time - think the smart bombs from Brawl. Noble projectiles could probably spray out for a couple seconds with set range for a flamethrower-like attack.

There's plenty of possible interpretation in the generic projectiles the monsters fire. No need to just make them straight projectiles like they are in the source games.

Edit: For example.

---

Offensive:
Super Shotgun - Sends out a thick fan of fast, short-range projectiles that cause spin-out.
Chaingun - For the next few seconds, cause the user to deal radius damage around itself every 4 or so tics that deals minor damage and caused some slight angle change with what it hits along with a second or two of no control with no mercy invincibility. Decent range for radius damage, but still requires heading towards the target for offensive use.
Rocket Launcher - Sends forth a rocket that starts at moderate at first and accelerates over time. Deals pretty large radius damage upon impact and knocks enemies up - maybe even the user, too?
Plasma Rifle - For the next few tics, spews out blue plasma in a tight spread. Causes spin-out.
BFG - Kind of stumped on this one. Charges, then lobs projectile maybe with huge, but non-user harming splash damage, and shortly after the explosion the user spews short-ranged fan of plasma? Dunno.

Fireball - Imp projectile. Decently fast projectile that bounces multiple times and causes spin out if it hits.
Gas Ball - Caco projectile. Lobbed a moderate distance away and explodes for a second or two on impact. The explosion starts tiny but becomes huge after time. Causes knock-up.
Balefire - Baron projectile. For the next second or two, the user constantly fires short-ranged projectiles in front of themselves in a weaving pattern. Causing spin out.
Soulseeker - Revenant projectile. Basically the red shell, causes spin out.
Plasma Burst - After a short charge time, sends out two or three circular waves of plasma one after the other. Causes spin out.
Fat Shot - Mancubus projectile. Short charge, then two projectiles are fired in a large spread forward in delayed waves. Causes knock up.
Soul Burn - Ignites the first place player. After a long delay, deals damage and knocks them up. Ignited players can transfer the flames by bumping into another player.

Barrel - Leaves an explosive barrel behind that explodes when impacted and knocks everyone up in a radius. Can be prematurely detonated with projectiles.

Defensive / Utility:
Soulsphere - Creates a one-shot shield around the user that blocks the next source of player damage. Upon popping, grants mercy invincibility.
Invulnerability Sphere - Makes the user impervious to damage for 5ish seconds.
Berserk Pack - Restores health and temporarily allows boosting without cooldown.
Partial Invisibility - Allows the user to pass through other players and player projectiles for longer than the Invulnerability Sphere.
Armor - Drastically reduces the duration of spin out for a while.
Radiation Suit - Grants better acceleration and speed that ignores terrain. Also grants immunity to terrain damage.

Map Items:
Health - Appears only in health mode, comes in health bonus ( 2% of max health ), stimpack ( 10% ), and medikit ( 25% ). Provides no purpose outside of those modes.
Barrels - Act just like their weapon counterparts, maybe respawn after some time?
Backpack - Probably could refit these things into the item pickups.
Keys - By themselves, do nothing. However, they could allow the holder to activate boost pads or access new routes with jump pads. Placed in difficult spots and dropped on being hit and / or stays constant so everyone can pick them up if they take the route to them. All of the keys could be made functional, although it'd probably be recommended to only use up to two on them on a large circuit.

For reference, I imagine knock up would be far worse than spin out, as in longer duration and completely wiping out forward momentum.

[0bsidian]

Is there an unlockables system? Say you don't unlock the Cyberdemon kart until you beat him at the Tower of Babel, or something to that effect. This is probably my CTR experience talking, mind you.

[ledillman]

I tought the same! at first, my ideas were this:

Unlocking "phobos" when Phobos race is completed (the skin should be like the doomguy, but with a different color representing the episode... maybe the same color as the one used in skulltag?)

Unlocking "deimos" when Deimos race is completed (same as above, a color representing the episode, probably grey or dark red?)

Unlocking "cyberdemon" when Tower of Babel is completed... in a record time maybe?

Unlocking Romero's head when all of doom 2 races are completed

[GooberMan]

Is there an unlockables system? Say you don't unlock the Cyberdemon kart until you beat him at the Tower of Babel, or something to that effect. This is probably my CTR experience talking, mind you.

Dopefish is a secret/unlockable kart. So yeah. The mechanics are unknown, but there is unlockables.

Also a word on power ups - as they're (I believe still) being categorised in to offensive and defensive (I'm thinking primary fire triggers offensive and alt fire triggers defensive) then there'd be separate box types for both. More tactical options that way instead of just random box powerups.

[Dreadopp]

those are friggin awesome!

Thanks.

Here's another that I forgot to include with that set:



@scalliano: When I'm done doing the sprites for these karts, should I send them to you and GooberMan, or post them here?