Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

[twinkieman93]

No, he didn't spawn in afterwards, I'm aware of that particular issue. He was right around the corner from a Disciple, and I killed the Disciple first, and I was awarded the 100% kills bonus. I was understandably confused as I was aware of the Acolyte's existence, so I double checked the kill count on the map scroll to be sure. It corroborated the bonus message's story. My guess is that while Acolytes aren't technically friendly, they may have the friendly flag so they target other monsters. I may go check the code after this.

EDIT: Just checked. Nope. It is a mystery.

EDIT 2: Actually, he is. He's made friendly in his See state, and so he ends up being removed from the monster count, much like your summoned help.

[dljosef]

Assuming you're playing as a spellcaster, here is the best possible way I distributed stats while playing on the 4th difficulty in slaughter maps. (5th difficulty, forget it!)

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Put one point each into Wisdom, Intellect, and Willpower. Ignore everything else.

Edit: Also, I suggest making the monsters of Doom and Heretic just as likely to drop flasks as they are to dropping reagents. In Doom, the reagent drop rate's a little too low and the drop rate of flasks still very high. The reverse happens with Heretic.

[twinkieman93]

Assuming you're playing as a spellcaster, here is the best possible way I distributed stats while playing on the 4th difficulty in slaughter maps. (5th difficulty, forget it!)

---

Put one point each into Wisdom, Intellect, and Willpower. Ignore everything else.

That's how I play Mage. With Hunter I typically go Agility, Willpower and Intellect. As I demonstrated to myself once, if you have a high Willpower and use your skills sparingly, you don't need a high Wisdom.

[Patriot1776]

Also, I suggest making the monsters of Doom and Heretic just as likely to drop flasks as they are to dropping reagents. In Doom, the reagent drop rate's a little too low and the drop rate of flasks still very high. The reverse happens with Heretic.

What do you change to do that? I've not been able to find so far the code in the DooM and Heretic patches to do that very thing...

[dljosef]

I haven't thought of searching that code yet...though my new favorite character for those slaughtermaps is pretty much the mage. He essentially has the best slot 1 weapon. (Any ranged weapon for an emergency weapon is great in my books. Although some of the mages' spells I don't really use much, I especially like his mana charge spell.)

[Patriot1776]

I was wondering if there is any current work with making this mod compatible with Serpent Resurrection. I've come to love this mod so much I can't imagine now playing HeXen maps without it. I could try and help with the coding if needed, though I figure one of the major things is the third mana type in Serpent Resurrection and the player's internal 'magic' would conflict and so that would have to be completely reworked is the major stumbling block, along with coming up with new weapons for the two new classes?

[SallazarSpellcaster]

I was wondering if there is any current work with making this mod compatible with Serpent Resurrection. I've come to love this mod so much I can't imagine now playing HeXen maps without it. I could try and help with the coding if needed, though I figure one of the major things is the third mana type in Serpent Resurrection and the player's internal 'magic' would conflict and so that would have to be completely reworked is the major stumbling block, along with coming up with new weapons for the two new classes?

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who would be absolutely thrilled to see Wrath of Cronos being compatible with Serpent Resurrection. Personally I find SR's maps to be of the utmost quality and absolute fun to explore and traverse; while Wrath of Cronos' fast paced and strategic combat would make it a blast to play through, especially as it lets you vanquish the hordes of monsters that Serpent throws at you.

I think that the third and fourth mana types could be linked to the second blue and green mana weapons, while indeed a new weapon should be added as a second ultimate for every character; the mod's magic could be linked to WoC's, making the spell scrolls drain from the magick reservoir and act as very powerful, one use spells (The power scroll for example, could act as a Tome of Power). Monsters would also have to be made to fit into WoC's leveling system, and certain items would have to be reworked.

I believe that Thetis contacted TheUltimateDoomer regarding a possible compatibility between their mods, however it'd appear that Doomer's been rather inactive so no conclusion has been reached yet. However, I really hope this comes to happen, seeing as it'd mean combining what I consider to be the best maps with the best gameplay, and result in a truly incredible blast of Hexen play.

[Thetis]

I have not contacted TheUltimateDoomer on merging WoC with Serpent Resurrection, but those are interesting ways to merge the two together if that were to occur.

[SallazarSpellcaster]

I have not contacted TheUltimateDoomer on merging WoC with Serpent Resurrection, but those are interesting ways to merge the two together if that were to occur.

I see, my apologies, I thought you had.

But yes, that is how I personally believe Wrath of Cronos could be made to work with SR, seeing as the greatest difference is the leveling, stats and skills system, I think that merging spell scrolls and monsters might be the best option, seeing as there'd be close to no loss on SR's core magic system.

And thinking on it led me to think a few possible suggestions for a future version of Wrath of Cronos itself: Innate abilities, magick potions, and a possible Tome of Power.

I know not whether this has been suggested before, but giving certain abilities to each character class to further difference them from the rest and making them more unique could add another layer of depth to the mod. For example letting the Mage regenerate magick faster, or the Fighter have faster health regeneration, things along those lines. As for a Tome of Power, I think that had been mentioned before, but it could effectively give weapons 4 firing modes instead of two; being fair however, some characters' attacks might become overpowered this way. And regarding a magick potion, that is a suggestion I made on the Zandronum thread, and it remains the same: Adding a potion that recovers magick, which could share spawning spots with quartz potions, with a small chance to appear.

And one final suggestion, I'd like to recommend using the Skull Wizard as a "boss" level monster akin to Bormereth, to share spawns with Dark Bishops; I just believe that that enemy poses an entertaining level of threat and variance on its attacks that could make it very fitting with other similar enemies, such as the aforementioned Bormereth and the Shadow Serpent.

In any case, I reiterate my hopes for a possible WoC/SR compatibility, restating that indeed, that would be a most enthralling experience.

Cheers.

[Patriot1776]

That makes sense making the 3rd and 4th mana types become mana needed for WoC's two additional stock weapons per class. Really also like the idea of tying WoC and Serpent's 'magic' systems together so they could enhance each other.

Hmm...as for second ultimate weapons, I do have an idea for a second ultimate weapon for the Fighter if this patch for Serpent Resurrection ever happens:

Two-handed Warhammer Called A Thunder Hammer

Just what would this thing do?

Primary: It would deliver a massively brutal amount of damage to whatever enemy is directly impacted by it, while also unleashing a massive shockwave that would blast large groups of enemies within a certain distance of the player into the air and backwards taking damage from hitting walls and other immovables in the room, and possibly stunning and 'fearing' the surviving ones after they land for a brief period of time. So this would be very,VERY useful for boss battles, or would give the Fighter another means of crowd control. HOWEVER, the Thunder Hammer would require all 4 mana types for its brutal knockback effects to work as well as get the massive damage to whatever enemy was directly hit. Unpowered, it would still be the most brutal melee weapon the Fighter has, but unpowered its an ordinary two-handed warhammer.

Secondary: You basically deliver a John Henry-style downward strike to the ground to unleash its shockwave blast and get a mauling crowd of baddies off you. Also sets off a short-range earthquake that leaves ground enemies that were blasted back immobile for a few seconds if they are still alive, as they've completely lost their footing and can't pursue until the earthquake dies away. Again, this would require all four mana types to work, otherwise unpowered, it will only cause the enemies within very close proximity, say 128 units or so, to lose their footing and be unable to pursue you for a few seconds.

No idea where sprites and sounds, besides the in-game thunderclap sound, could be had so that it could be coded, along with visual effects for it. Have to think a little more of what a second ultimate for some of the other classes could be.

[SallazarSpellcaster]

That makes sense making the 3rd and 4th mana types become mana needed for WoC's two additional stock weapons per class. Really also like the idea of tying WoC and Serpent's 'magic' systems together so they could enhance each other.

Hmm...as for second ultimate weapons, I do have an idea for a second ultimate weapon for the Fighter if this patch for Serpent Resurrection ever happens:

Two-handed Warhammer Called A Thunder Hammer

Just what would this thing do?

Primary: It would deliver a massively brutal amount of damage to whatever enemy is directly impacted by it, while also unleashing a massive shockwave that would blast large groups of enemies within a certain distance of the player into the air and backwards taking damage from hitting walls and other immovables in the room, and possibly stunning and 'fearing' the surviving ones after they land for a brief period of time. So this would be very,VERY useful for boss battles, or would give the Fighter another means of crowd control. HOWEVER, the Thunder Hammer would require all 4 mana types for its brutal knockback effects to work as well as get the massive damage to whatever enemy was directly hit. Unpowered, it would still be the most brutal melee weapon the Fighter has, but unpowered its an ordinary two-handed warhammer.

Secondary: You basically deliver a John Henry-style downward strike to the ground to unleash its shockwave blast and get a mauling crowd of baddies off you. Also sets off a short-range earthquake that leaves ground enemies that were blasted back immobile for a few seconds if they are still alive, as they've completely lost their footing and can't pursue until the earthquake dies away. Again, this would require all four mana types to work, otherwise unpowered, it will only cause the enemies within very close proximity, say 128 units or so, to lose their footing and be unable to pursue you for a few seconds.

No idea where sprites and sounds, besides the in-game thunderclap sound, could be had so that it could be coded, along with visual effects for it. Have to think a little more of what a second ultimate for some of the other classes could be.

That sounds like a cool idea for a Fighter weapon in general, though it sounds a tad overpowered; it might be best if instead of using 4 types of mana (Seeing as there's already a weapon that does that in SR, which if you haven't finished the mod, you'll see 'til later) it used a large amount of mana, so the Fighter only got a few uses off of it, thus being a last resource/room-wiper attack.

As for the possibility of making WoC compatible with Serpent Resurrection, I believe it is up to the users of both mods to make it happen. I mean, things don't get made out of nowhere no matter how incredible they might become, without people showing actual interest and support for a project, it won't happen; in the case of such compatibility, you sir are the second person I've seen who actually expresses interest on a possible merging of the mods, which actually does baffle me: Serpent Resurrection is undeniably the best Hexen mod to date pertaining maps, size and scope and a thoroughly delightful adventure, while Wrath of Cronos is in my opinion the best gameplay mod hands down. Combining their best parts together would make something unbelievably awesome, plus adding a possibility of multiplayer with WoC and some changes to SR would turn it into something else entirely. But again, spiffy as the above sounds, it can only be made to happen if players show their interest on it, whether on the forum threads as I am attempting to do right now, or by personally messaging the authors and the people involved in the making of each mod.

Only through players actually wanting something to happen, will it happen; I've oftentimes reiterated how fantastic the merging of both mods could be and how could it be done, hell it could even have a snazzy name such as "Serpent: Wrath of Durenor"... But alas I am only one man and can only do so much to make something that I think might bring Hexen all of the attention it justly deserves happen. However, now that I see that I'm the only one who would like to see it come to be, I believe there might yet be hope of seeing it materialize. But of course, as I've said before, it can only be done if people express their interest on it. A man can hope.

[Patriot1776]

I'm only the second person to have shown interest in such an incredible idea as this? Well darn, I'm kinda shocked at that myself. What I'd most likely be able to do to help out on the project is probably a conglomeration of somewhat trivial stuff that is somewhat tedious to do in playtesting and coding and assisting putting everything together, along with maybe a bit of mapping if needed. I can't do spriting at all, nor sound effects though, mostly easy but tedious coding, playtesting and a bit of mapping perhaps.

The Thunder Hammer idea is mostly from knowing of a similar weapon used mostly by the Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines in the Warhammer 40k tabletop wargame, and so I guess it could use both of the 3rd and 4th mana types then alone, and big chunks of each, if such a weapon is not already in Serpent Resurrection or not. I haven't finished playing it because of how long it is and mostly played it before I came across WoC. But what being able to send a group of enemies flying at once is the essence of it being called the Thunder Hammer, though both attacks I described obviously could be toned down from my initial ideas. I'd have to consult with my real life sibling brother though for refinement of the implementing of it, as he's much more familiar with Warhammer 40k than I am.

I'll probably post a little bit later today a couple screencaps from a HeXen map that is really no more than two rooms right now, not sure if it warrant posting here, probably instead the Editing area, but something I think I have a bit of an interesting start to, just as I said, only a couple rooms of right now that I've hit 'creative block' with on where to then take it and not exactly sure how to go about doing it.

[Crudux Cruo]

Truth be told, making the two "Compatible" would really amount to removing all the weapons and conflicting items/code, making it JUST a mapset. Truthfully, i wish he would have just released a version that was just maps. from that point, there would be no real "merging" of projects. it would be WOC, and a mapset, and noone would feel hurt or offended, or need permission. The problem with this is, its alot of work to remove all the elements that might conflict with WOC. I think a lack of hexen mapsets has been one of my biggest put downs, besides some redundant skills and other things that makes upgrading confusing (warrior's thrown hammer affected by intelligence? wth?)

[SallazarSpellcaster]

Truth be told, making the two "Compatible" would really amount to removing all the weapons and conflicting items/code, making it JUST a mapset. Truthfully, i wish he would have just released a version that was just maps. from that point, there would be no real "merging" of projects. it would be WOC, and a mapset, and noone would feel hurt or offended, or need permission. The problem with this is, its alot of work to remove all the elements that might conflict with WOC. I think a lack of hexen mapsets has been one of my biggest put downs, besides some redundant skills and other things that makes upgrading confusing (warrior's thrown hammer affected by intelligence? wth?)

I wholeheartedly agree with you, that it'd have been quite convenient had SR also had a "maps only" version, in fact I commented such on the mod's thread. However that did not come to be, and it'd seem that there's no indication that it might happen in the near future.

I agree as well that the lack of maps for Hexen is a huge turn off for potential players of the game. I mean, there're already excellent gameplay mods, but close to no maps to play them on. In the case of Wrath of Cronos, its compatibility with the other iD games makes it quite unique in that there's a huge variety of maps to play on Heretic and Doom; however, personally while I find playing WoC on Doom and Heretic to be fun, it doesn't give the same dark fantasy vibe of Hexen, and as such the amusement is rather short lived. That is why I'm actually excited and glad to see so many map projects coming up as of late.

It appears to me though, that the authors of this present mod and Serpent Resurrection might be more comfortable with a "merging", this is only my impression though, and I believe it could play on both mods' best aspects. SR would require some major adjustments however, such as the aforementioned magic system integration, and also the shops would need to be modified in order to include WoC's various sized quartz potions, and another shop might have to be added entirely for Alchemy, to sell reagents, flasks and bombs. It is, I believe, quite a hefty load of coding work to make both work together, and indeed if the conflicting code was removed from the maps compatibility would be infinitely easier, though removing it altogether might offend the people who worked on SR's coding.

I must say however, that personally I'm glad to see more people showing interest on a possible compatibility of both mods, as I said before, community involvement makes stuff happen.

[-Ghost-]

I'd definitely support something like that; Hexen's only real weakness for me is that the vanilla maps are just so bad. I really enjoy everything else about it, and I enjoyed what I played of SR.