One ZDooM & one GZDooM question

[ReX]

ZDooM question: The wiki for 1504/1505 — Vertex height things states: "Please note that these things have no effect on sectors with more than 3 touching vertices." What exactly are "sectors with more than 3 touching vertices"? Triangular sectors (which, by the way, the wiki already mentions)? But then, how do you get triangular sectors adjacent to each other and having more than 2 common vertices?

GZDooM question: What is the Option setting for most "realistic" light. I realize that the term "realistic" may vary depending on the context. Specifically, I am interested in being able to see proper light gradients in a tunnel, which I have created with 8-unit light incremented sectors. These are my impressions of the various GL lighting options in GZDooM:

• 1. Dark = Virtually no gradient noticeable below light level 112, but nice and dark in truly dark areas.
  2. Legacy = Virtually no gradient noticeable below light level 112, and too bright overall.
  3. Standard = Similar to Legacy, but not quite as bright. Still too bright, however, to really be able to tell there's a light gradient.
  4. Bright = Best gradient, but still too bright to really experience a "descent into darkness". [Incidentally, this option is less bright than "Standard", which seems contradictory, given the nomenclature.]
  5. DooM = Virtually no gradient noticeable below light level 104, too dark down to 64, then not dark enough below that.

Ideally, I'd want the gradient visibility of Bright, and the utter darkness of Dark in the truly dark areas. Can this be done by combining GL lighting options with other options?

[NeuralStunner]

What exactly are "sectors with more than 3 touching vertices"? Triangular sectors (which, by the way, the wiki already mentions)?

Probably means you can't throw a fourth vertex into a technically still triangular sector and expect it to work. Might be a better way to word it, though.

GZDooM question: What is the Option setting for most "realistic" light.

If you want something really capable of "mood", go with Dark. (Though I prefer Doom mode for the near-object visibility.)

[Graf Zahl]

• 1. Dark = Virtually no gradient noticeable below light level 112, but nice and dark in truly dark areas.
  2. Legacy = Virtually no gradient noticeable below light level 112, and too bright overall.
  3. Standard = Similar to Legacy, but not quite as bright. Still too bright, however, to really be able to tell there's a light gradient.
  4. Bright = Best gradient, but still too bright to really experience a "descent into darkness". [Incidentally, this option is less bright than "Standard", which seems contradictory, given the nomenclature.]
  5. DooM = Virtually no gradient noticeable below light level 104, too dark down to 64, then not dark enough below that.

Ideally, I'd want the gradient visibility of Bright, and the utter darkness of Dark in the truly dark areas. Can this be done by combining GL lighting options with other options?

[/quote]

Some explanations

Dark and Doom have a non-linear brightness degradation. Brightness diminshes rapidly in the medium range between 96 and 192, but much less above and below. The only difference is that 'Doom' uses a shader to brighten the area around the player to approximate Doom's original brightness fading. Black for for brightness fading is relatively weak above 128 and below 96 it's the only difference between light levels

Bright uses the same fog method as Dark but uses linear brightness degradation.

Standard is like Bright but uses far stronger depth fog. It's called standard because when GZDoom was first released it was the only lighting method.

Legacy tries to get the same light levels as Doom Legacy's GL renderer which does nearly everything wrong it can do wrong. Only recommended for playing Legacy maps that'd be to dark otherwise.

If you want realism, use Bright but lower the light levels.

[Gez]

ZDooM question: The wiki for 1504/1505 — Vertex height things states: "Please note that these things have no effect on sectors with more than 3 touching vertices." What exactly are "sectors with more than 3 touching vertices"?

It doesn't matter at all if these vertices are shared with other sectors.

[Enjay]

Some explanations

Excellent, than you. I was looking for exactly that information myself just recently. I'd sort of worked much of it out "by eye" but it's nice to get a proper explanation.

[ReX]

If you want realism, use Bright but lower the light levels.

I'm guessing that, for existing maps, this will require universally lowering light levels throughout the map? How would this affect users that don't use the 'Bright' setting?

A follow-up question - can the GL lighting options be "forced" using MAPINFO or some other wad tool? Is it even desirable to create such an over-ride of the user's configuration? [My guess is that the answer to this second question is "no".]

@NeuralStunner & Gez: Thanks for helping to clarify. I had figured that was what the wiki might have meant, but I wanted to confirm. As such, the wiki probably ought to say "sectors with more than 3 touching 2 common vertices"

@Enjay: I know what you mean. When I read Graf's explanation I could immediately relate his technical explanation to my in-game visual experiences.

[Gez]

I really don't understand what you are trying to mean with "common vertices". I interpret that as "vertices shared with another sector", and if so I have to correct it once more and insist that the amount of vertices in common with other sectors is entirely irrelevant. It can be 0, 1, 2 or all 3. It'll work.

The only thing that matters is that the sector be comprised of no more than three vertices total.

[ReX]

About the issue with "touching" vs. "common", it's more a matter of semantics. You can have adjacent sectors with their vertices overlapping but not joined (i.e., two vertices at the same coordinates), which would make them "touching". If the two vertices were joined, however, it would make them "common". Anyway, this is all irrelevant in light of what you said here:

The only thing that matters is that the sector be comprised of no more than three vertices total.

Agreed.