[Question] Make eyes/mouth from the Icon of Sin go evil?

[RV-007]

I want to make the eyes from the Icon of Sin shoot evil fire/rail at the player b/c I think the Icon of Sin should at least do some fighting himself. Maybe, his mouth can reek/vomit out flames like a dragon. I had an idea to make the map30 destroy itself after the player kill the bossbrain only to find that the Icon of Sin has broke from the wall and must now re-kill the giant in a pit arena. This might require a custom actor, sprite editting, and some map editing.
Is it possible to do this?

[Xtyfe]

Possible? For sure!

It will require map editing for sure, you would need to make stationary "monsters" for the eyes and mouth to shoot at the player that would die when the icon of sin dies. Just place them where the eyes and mouth are and it will work np.

The second arena part however, that would be tougher. It would require mapping and sprite editing to make an actual monster out of the icon of sin (a cool idea i'm surprised no ones done yet!)

[InsanityBringer]

Doing a full icon of sin using sprites would be very very very difficult to get looking right. Maybe if you used multiple parts, it could work, but as is it would be very difficult.

[Nash]

I have always wanted to construct a 3-d model version of Baphomet... that would be such an epic fight.

[.+:icytux:+.]

Yeah a fight with the whole creature instead of just its head stuck in a wall has been in my dreams since I saw the level 8)

[Enjay]

It may be my lack of imagination or perhaps just because I know what is going on in the background so well these days, but I don't recall ever really being able to think of the icon of sin as an entity in itself. It's just so obviously a wall, a static wall with very little going on at all. The only interactive bit is a little hole near the top. The rest can safely (and easily) be ignored because it is so obviously just a wall. I wish the level had given me the impression of a huge beast with its head clamped uncomfortably at one side of the arena, all its massive power focused on spawning new demons as its hideously vile body lay strapped and struggling against its bonds just out of sight - but it didn't.

[Ethril]

Yeah a fight with the whole creature instead of just its head stuck in a wall has been in my dreams since I saw the level 8)

How the heck would you even fight something that huge? Even a BFG isn't going to cut it...
"EAT HOT PLASMA DEATH, FIEND!"
"OH NO, YOU SLIGHTLY SINGED MY TOENAIL. WHAT EVER SHALL I DO?"

It would end up having to still be a "puzzle boss", with you crippling its limbs in stages and then taking on the head after it collapses.
Either that, or Doomguy gets to drive a Humongous Mecha. Or teams up with Godzilla.
Or both.

...That would be so awesome. /)^3^(\

[NeuralStunner]

I always saw the master-demon as an immobile leader type. He summons minions to do his work for him, if he were a powerful warrior entity he'd be more active in the assault on Earth.

Spider Mastermind wasn't especially formidable either.

[Phml]

It may be my lack of imagination or perhaps just because I know what is going on in the background so well these days, but I don't recall ever really being able to think of the icon of sin as an entity in itself. It's just so obviously a wall, a static wall with very little going on at all. The only interactive bit is a little hole near the top. The rest can safely (and easily) be ignored because it is so obviously just a wall. I wish the level had given me the impression of a huge beast with its head clamped uncomfortably at one side of the arena, all its massive power focused on spawning new demons as its hideously vile body lay strapped and struggling against its bonds just out of sight - but it didn't.

I hear you. For me, it was because the wall is completely flat, and with my poor eyesight combined with low resolution and software mode (at the time), I didn't actually understand it was supposed to be a giant creature until I read it on the Internet years later.

Plutonia 2 does such a better job at this, and is IMHO proof that the concept works, the execution was just lackluster in Doom 2. With proper perspective and contrast it's much more convincing.

[RV-007]

For the wall part, I think I could try make actors that will spawn at a certain height and stay in that place. That's the first step.

The eyes might be one actor overseeing the map and firing rails at the offset where the eyes are located. Hopefully, the rails will fire simultaneously or it will look goofy . Have lasers shot from the two eyes seem brutal enough due to the lack of cover.

As for the mouth, the first projectile idea is the ever classic dragon breath thing. I don't know if I should allow stanky gases to linger for a bit.
The second projectile idea can be lobbed gobs of fire/saliva under a certain range so that players will have another reason (first is float monsters) to look up above. Nevertheless, I would have to find the best coordinates/height/radius for sight and missiles. The best thought might be a moving wall mouth for a fire turret.

I already made a bossbrain actor that could defend himself by aerial control and gas projectiles (even if the player is on the pillar), but I doubt that would be regarded as the Icon of Sin. This (map) idea will probably be in its own wad so it can be freely used for other projects. I'll get back to it after some WIP w/ my other wad projects and Zdoom tinkering.

EDIT (02/01/2012):
Spawned actor at a given height seems impossible for I decided to make one (non-solid unshootable etc) actor for rail eyes and one short actor for fire breath. Both will be lined up at the very center of the wall. Tough luck for the revenant, lol.

[RV-007]

I have finally succeeded my initial goal. See in other thread. http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31674
As for making the eyes/mouth to die along with bossbrain, I hadn't done that yet. I like a last stand anyways.
The frankenstein idea is something else and might be dropped. Eyes/mouth from the Icon of Sin did go evil though.

The next best thing is to make a map where players will have to fight a spinning cube (as Icon of Sin) in a circular arena full of ceiling/wall turrets, pillars (w/ switches), and maybe even gradual_lava_spills/crushers/appendage (tentacles/hands/claws).

Whether the cube will act like a live (slow) monster is not yet determined.
Whether the lava spills or crushers be controlled by the Icon of Sin is also not yet determined.
Whether this map will appear or open up after damaging the bossbrain enough is not yet determined and so on.
Whether the Icon of Sin turns into a giant monster in this map idea is not yet determined.
Too many ideas to sort out now.

Another map idea is a tower w/ (circular) elevator walls in the center. The first switch will lower elevator walls, which turns out to be a Icon of Sin elevator. The elevator cannot be controlled except for chasing players. Players will have to open doors to upper stairs for better items/weapons. Any player underneath the elevator might get a chance to be crushed. Any player above the first floor gets a chance to ride the elevator. Killing the bossbrain will spawn a key somewhere and provide access to the exit (thru lowered elevator basement lift/stairs).

[RV-007]

Welp, looks like there is already a bossbrain that breathes fire after all! The gbd2 iwad's bossbrain is basically the head of that giant fat marshmallow man, lol. This could give me some ideas to make multi-segmented final bosses (hopefully all segmented would be animated and stuff [although most likely that this will certainly take longer than my steady familiarity w/ the simple cheap DECORATE lump script]).

Marshmallow Man:

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[Sonnyboy]

Fireballs from the eyes? That would look silly.

[DonaldDuck]

Doing a full icon of sin using sprites would be very very very difficult to get looking right. Maybe if you used multiple parts, it could work, but as is it would be very difficult.

I tried it and its too damn hard:

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Maybe someone could take new photos of Romeros head