2008 - A Doom Odyssey (aka 2002ADO v3)

[esselfortium]

This is, uhhh, interesting and all, but I do have to ask: why?

From the comparative screenshots you posted of this on DRDteam a few weeks ago, the original versions of the 2002ADO maps looked significantly better and less sloppy, with few exceptions, whereas yours just had random bits of ugly detail thrown into them with no concern for texture alignment or much of anything else.

For example, compare the original and "improved" versions of the 2002ado e2m3 exit room.

I noticed on your site that you also "improved" Suspended in Dusk by replacing its nice custom-made sky with this sickly, mirrored abomination and adding a terrible end screen. You then claim in your textfile that "It's what he would have done if he had have the following tools used by me". No, it's not. Sorry. How do either of those things improve it? You then say he would have done it if he had your tools, where you list XWE and ZenNode, both of which Espi already listed as tools he used, "King Elvis" Doom Launcher, and a purchased version of WinZip. I don't get it.

And, of course, how could we possibly enjoy Ruma without ugly-looking fog that doesn't even match with the sky?

While browsing your site I also found a number of screenshots in which both the before and after shots looked so bad I could honestly not tell which one was which. (Also, what's up with the sprite replacements? They're terrible)

[zap610]

This seems really tacky, tasteless, and generally stupid. If I was the person who made this, I would want nothing to do with your butchering of it.

[XutaWoo]

both the before and after shots looked so bad I could honestly not tell which one was which.

I think the improved one is the one that is completely white.

[Phucket]

For the most part I didn't see too many changes and the ones I did see looked pretty bad, kinda like the one Eissel mentioned. Also, so what if Cyb didn't want you to change his level and "improve it"? It's his wad so I'm pretty sure that he has the right to deny your changes if he wants.

[Woolie Wool]

This is, uhhh, interesting and all, but I do have to ask: why?

From the comparative screenshots you posted of this on DRDteam a few weeks ago, the original versions of the 2002ADO maps looked significantly better and less sloppy, with few exceptions, whereas yours just had random bits of ugly detail thrown into them with no concern for texture alignment or much of anything else.

For example, compare the original and "improved" versions of the 2002ado e2m3 exit room.

I noticed on your site that you also "improved" Suspended in Dusk by replacing its nice custom-made sky with this sickly, mirrored abomination and adding a terrible end screen. You then claim in your textfile that "It's what he would have done if he had have the following tools used by me". No, it's not. Sorry. How do either of those things improve it? You then say he would have done it if he had your tools, where you list XWE and ZenNode, both of which Espi already listed as tools he used, "King Elvis" Doom Launcher, and a purchased version of WinZip. I don't get it.

And, of course, how could we possibly enjoy Ruma without ugly-looking fog that doesn't even match with the sky?

While browsing your site I also found a number of screenshots in which both the before and after shots looked so bad I could honestly not tell which one was which. (Also, what's up with the sprite replacements? They're terrible)

It seems to me that splattering random GZDoom features all over Suspended in Dusk kind of ruins the original point of the wad, doesn't it? Not to mention that most of JIve's skies look like 256x128 skies run through a shitload of filters.

@Jive:
The fact of the matter is that the 5 or so maps I've played of 2008ADO offer little, if any improvement over the originals. A lot of the added detail clashes with the surrounding architecture. The skies look nasty and grainy. Many levels have few or no areas easily distingishable from the originals. I can see the value of porting, say, ZanZan, to modern ZDoom because ZanZan uses an obsolete ZDoom variant that's extremely difficult to find. 2002ADO works on almost any Doom engine and looks and plays just fine. There was no real reason to do this, except MAYBE to fix the mapinfo, which could've been done in a 1KB patch wad to stick on /idgames. Furthermore, why the HELL did you use ZDoom features in these maps? I'm not one to bash ZDoom, I post here regularly and make wads for ZDoom, but you're not actually doing anything to make these ZDoom wads on anything but a very superficial level, and making the wads unplayable for anyone who doesn't want to use ZDoom. And this isn't even getting into what you did to Ruma, which is like painting a beard on the Mona Lisa. What gives you the right to expect us to like it?

[Csonicgo]

Wow!! Paul Corfiatis's crew made an awesome megawad, one of the most famous of the Doom's history, keeping the ambiance and the feeling of the good old Doom, but integrating a bunch of incredible effects, making of it a masterpiece, and Jive51 ... uh, added translucent lost souls.

[Phucket]

I played through it some more and I gotta say, you really didn't do much improving. From what I've seen so far you just threw in some new skies and added in some random stuff that really just seems out of place.

[Kate]

This is the best modification ever. Proof:

[Tormentor667]

... I will stick to the original ...

Honestly Jive, try to come up with original work, create your own projects as it obviously doesn't work out very well if you try to improve other persons work, especially not something like 2002ADO that's already been perfect as it was This is also a point concerning countless other wads you "touched up". Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound harsh, but please stop this. It's really no good, it is nothing original and I doubt that someone ever will care about playing your modifications twice if only to look up again "how not to do things"

It's time for something original

BTW, this one's for the win!

[Jive]

The changes you made were good

ALL the authors of my modifications were pleased with what I done on their work. It's exactly for this reason that they are on my site(s).

Do you seriously think that I'll have more than 3 millions of visited pages on my site DLW if my work wasn't pleasing players?!?
My new site GZW is also well visited, ans users are coming back a lot of times
If what you wrote was the general feeling, once someone would have played one time with one of my mods, he would have avoided my site like the plague... Thus, it's exactly the contrary: once played with one of my mods, they come back and download a lot of my mods...

I guess that you have THE good taste for what is good or not for Doom, and Jive's stuff users don't have any idea of what is pleasant...
I guess that you know everything better than everyone.

What is really amazing is that the original authors of my mods are at the opposite side of what you wrote here.

A last very important point: my mods are intended to be played on OpenGl mode
But, since Zdoom is NOT an OpenGl port, of course, all must have a VERY different aspect, and I guess that, effectively, playing my mods with Zdoom must be quite ugly.
BUT... I came here, on the Zdoom forum, because someone wrote on the forum Gzdoom that, if we want to make known our work, we should come here. I done it. I came, and offered for free the result of hours of work.
Then, as a "Thank you", you are coming to bash me and my work, telling that I'm a jerk, that my works are very ugly, that I didn't improve anything, blah blah blah...

Jesus !!!

[Jive]

It's really no good, it is nothing original and I doubt that someone ever will care about playing your modifications twice if only to look up again "how not to do things"

You are a revisionist ?!?
Why are you pleased to write the contrary of what is the reality?
I'm a member of the community of Doom since more than 10 years, I have visitors all over the world since years, coming back a lot of times, and you are coming here, writing such an untruth???

Amazing, indeed !!!

[DBThanatos]

I think you should chill out, really. Your posting ways are far too aggressive and childish. Ok, people here didnt like your job, so what? what's the point in saying "my work is awesome"?

If they dont like it, nothing you say will change that. Take in count what they say, or ignore them if you want, but really:

I'm a member of the community of Doom since more than 10 years, I have visitors all over the world since years, coming back a lot of times, and you are coming here, writing such an untruth???

What does it matter if you have been a member for 10 years? I know others here that have been for far less time and do great works. Just stop saying that you got approval of the authors as a guarantee that this "mod" is good.

playing my mods with Zdoom must be quite ugly.

Then dont post it in ZDOOM forums

I came, and offered for free the result of hours of work.

This is worse. Now you want to glorify yourself because heroically you are modding and offering for free? Hell!! i guess this forums are filled with super heroes.

Oh and BTW

Why are you pleased to write the contrary of what is the reality?

It makes sense that you like your work, but that in no way means that is the general opinion. Basically you are saying "if I say is good, then it is". Yes, I am aware of what you just said of your users:

Do you seriously think that I'll have more than 3 millions of visited pages on my site DLW if my work wasn't pleasing players?!?
My new site GZW is also well visited, ans users are coming back a lot of times
If what you wrote was the general feeling, once someone would have played one time with one of my mods, he would have avoided my site like the plague... Thus, it's exactly the contrary: once played with one of my mods, they come back and download a lot of my mods...

I guess that you have THE good taste for what is good or not for Doom, and Jive's stuff users don't have any idea of what is pleasant...

Egocentrism at it's best

[Tormentor667]

We could continue bashing around now but DBThanatos already got the point

To make things clear: "I don't like your work!", fortunately, this is only a personal opinion, unfortunately for you it's not the only one of this kind. Feel free to continue praising "your work" (mor to the brackets later) by telling us how many visitors you have a day (ever hread of bots?) and how long you are already part of the doom community, but this doesn't automatically make your changes good and you a great modder. The only thing you do is re-releasing already great mods with little additions in terms of dynamic lights and gl nodes but that's something everyone else can do as well. And in my eyes, the only thing you do is praising yourself for mods that you didn't even create but mirror or in worse cases rape as you just did with 2002 ADO.

[Skippy]

Anyone who has taken even a cursory glance over at DRD will know that attempting to get Jive to stop 'improving' other people's work/stop whining like a 12 year-old/stop being an utter narcissist/stop quoting website usage 'statistics' is an exercise in futility. It's one thing to take a WAD that isn't well-respected and improve its flaws to grant it more exposure. It's another thing altogether to take a highly-respected piece of work, change things needlessly, 'release' it for 'free' and then expect everyone to say 'aren't you f*cking great'.

The real irony here is that Jive no doubt has some actual skills that could be put to very good use in an original project. Too bad he seems determined to waste those skills on other people's WADs. And given his petulant, multicoloured, multisized, excamation-laden posts, I doubt I'd even bother downloading one of his original works anyway. People like Tormentor might get accused of self-aggrandizement, but at the very least he has a body of original work to share with the community - for FREE and everything! How Jive hasn't been banned from posting at DRD is beyond me.

I don't doubt the sincerity of Jive's posts, but he needs an attitude adjustment, and to actually release his own work for once. Having not been able to register at DRD, I've been wanting to express this for some time, so forgive me if this looks like bandwagonism, because it isn't.

[Tormentor667]

It's another thing altogether to take a highly-respected piece of work, change things needlessly, 'release' it for 'free' and then expect everyone to say 'aren't you f*cking great'.

That's exactly the point!