ZDOOM engine and BUILD engine ( DUKE, SHADOW WARRIOR etc )

TOGoS · Post by **TOGoS** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:01 pm

Well, ZDoom is Randy's baby, so I trust him to decide what's best for it. The way things are going it seems that he's re-writing Doom's internals piece-by-piece, and writing translation layers so that you can still play your old pwads. Eventually (like maybe 2015) there'll be a super-awesome real-time ray-tracing engine at the core, and a plug-in data-loading architecture that allows ZDoom to support Doom's, Build's, and it's own super-awesome kruft-free level/graphic/monster/script/mod formats. Oh, and it'll have client-server networking

But I'm not holding my breath. Randy'll get there when he does.

BTW, I still haven't gotten over the fact that I can use PNGs for textures. And I don't have to put it in TEXTURE1, either! *wets pants*

Post by **Chris** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:40 am

Eventually (like maybe 2015) there'll be a super-awesome real-time ray-tracing engine at the core, and a plug-in data-loading architecture that allows ZDoom'll to support Doom's, Build's, and it's own super-awesome kruft-free level/graphic/monster/script/mod formats. Oh, and it'll have client-server networking

But still no DoomScript.

ColdRock · Post by **ColdRock** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:44 am

Wow look at the number of replies! I think i made one hellova post. So, people cares about engine enhacements! Yes they do!

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:16 am

Or... just bashing you.

ColdRock · Post by **ColdRock** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:38 am

You are boring HotWax, you know that ?

TOGoS · Post by **TOGoS** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:39 am

Chris wrote:
Eventually (like maybe 2015) there'll be a super-awesome real-time ray-tracing engine at the core, and a plug-in data-loading architecture that allows ZDoom to support Doom's, Build's, and it's own super-awesome kruft-free level/graphic/monster/script/mod formats. Oh, and it'll have client-server networking
But still no DoomScript.

Hahaha. an earlier version of my post actually mentioned that [there would still be no DoomScript].

ColdRock wrote:Wow look at the number of replies! I think i made one hellova post. So, people cares about engine enhacements! Yes they do!

HotWax wrote:Or... just bashing you.

Pfft. There's enough room in this thread for both.

Summary: ColdRock: You are right that 3D floors would be cool. You are wrong if you think Randy should get on it right away just because you say so. That's a pretty obvious feature that would have been implemented a long time ago if it was that easy. That is all.

Ultraviolet · Post by **Ultraviolet** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:04 am

Now now children, if you have nothing nice to say... then fuck off.

Post by **randi** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:01 am

X-DOOM wrote:[Shadow Warrior still have the same trick for the room over room, YES thats true.
BUT ! There is a new thing no one seem to have seen, they also have a oom over room without a trick. If i can play and open again Shadow Warrior again, i will post some screenshot of what i'm saying. The problem is i'm running Windows XP and i can't play it. I know there is a way. but i'm not at least familiar with XP.

There is only one way it's done in Shadow Warrior: You mark all the floors/ceilings where you can see through a floor or ceiling to another sector. If you are inside any of those sectors, then the sector(s) on the other side of the floor/ceiling are drawn first, then the sector(s) on the side closest to you are drawn. Even if you don't draw the sectors on top of each other in the editor, the game will pull them together at runtime. The code for this is actually present in the latest version of Duke 3D but not completely finished.

Blood is similar, except you only have to mark the upper and lower sectors and not all the sectors that you can see the stack from. Based on my knowledge of the Build engine, I surmise that when the game draws the screen, if it detects that a floor or ceiling with a special texture was drawn, the next time it draws the view, it draws on the other side of that floor/ceiling first and then draws on your side. The result is that it's easier to set up than Shadow Warrior's method, but there is a one frame "glitch" where it doesn't draw anything on the other side of the floor/ceiling, so you get HOM in that spot for one frame.

ColdRock · Post by **ColdRock** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:03 pm

Very interesting Randy. I see the progress is going on.

X-DOOM · Post by **X-DOOM** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:41 pm

randy wrote:
X-DOOM wrote:[Shadow Warrior still have the same trick for the room over room, YES thats true...
There is only one way it's done in Shadow Warrior: You mark all the floors/ceilings where you can see through a floor or ceiling to another sector. If you are inside any of those sectors, then the sector(s) on the other side of the floor/ceiling are drawn first, then the sector(s) on the side closest to you are drawn. Even if you don't draw the sectors on top of each other in the editor, the game will pull them together at runtime. The code for this is actually present in the latest version of Duke 3D but not completely finished.

I wasn't far of my point ! But in Build where this effect is made, we see through the floor and ceiling. Yes Randy i remember i saw some sprites that was used to mark a script/effect function.

Will this be able to do with ZDoom ?

cccp_leha · Post by **cccp_leha** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:30 pm

I've mentioned this befire; now I have a question. Translucent flats, dynamic slopes and real (or faux) 3D - how are they related (if at all)?

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:27 am

Translucent flats would be perfectly possible, given that there's something to draw behind them. After all, if you looked out a window with only pure pitch black behind it, how would you know the window was see-through? In other words, before you can make translucent flats you have to enable another floor or ceiling above/below them, and thus the feature is directly tied in to ROR. Dynamic slopes have nothing to do with either of these. The issue is that as it stands now, ZDoom calculates sloping as the map is loaded and doesn't recalculate them again. Once a sector is sloped, it will always stay at that slope angle regardless of any movements of that sector or neighboring sectors.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:01 am

HotWax wrote:Dynamic slopes have nothing to do with either of these. The issue is that as it stands now, ZDoom calculates sloping as the map is loaded and doesn't recalculate them again. Once a sector is sloped, it will always stay at that slope angle regardless of any movements of that sector or neighboring sectors.

Right. But there's nothing that could prevent changing the slope in-game. It really wouldn't be that hard to create a Sector_ChangeSlope(tag, lineid, f/c) special that adjusts the sector so that the slope aligns to the given line. After all, the code to do this is already there.

SargeBaldy · Post by **SargeBaldy** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:54 am

Graf Zahl wrote:The strangest thing is that Legacy is the only major source port that's maintained by a team but I can't see any positive effects of that - on the contrary!

eternity is maintained by a team.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:50 am

SargeBaldy wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:The strangest thing is that Legacy is the only major source port that's maintained by a team but I can't see any positive effects of that - on the contrary!
eternity is maintained by a team.

AFAIK there's two people working on Eternity. I don't consider that a 'team' yet. (Besides, Eternity doesn't show any of Legacy's negative effect, does it?)

ZDoom

ZDOOM engine and BUILD engine ( DUKE, SHADOW WARRIOR etc )

we'll have it eventually, but don't hold your breath

Wow

Well well

Bashing ColdRock

!