ZDOOM engine and BUILD engine ( DUKE, SHADOW WARRIOR etc )

Eevee · Post by **Eevee** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:39 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:The problem is that Doom's renderer is not quite suited to handle such a construct.

I hesitate to ask such a can-of-worms-opening question, but what DOES Doom's renderer do with floors and ceilings that makes it incapable of this?

cutmanmike wrote:BURN THEM ALL!!!!
[pic]

Post by **randi** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:44 pm

Eevee wrote:I hesitate to ask such a can-of-worms-opening question, but what DOES Doom's renderer do with floors and ceilings that makes it incapable of this?

It maintains two one-dimensional arrays that keep track of where the ceiling and floor are, and these get updated as the scene is drawn. Snapshots of these arrays are also taken at each two-sided segs in order to do sprite clipping.

Doom also does a 2D walk through the BSP, so it wouldn't be able to draw something above a 3D floor and then below the 3D floor. This isn't terrible difficult to circumvent if you have GL nodes, but you still have to contend with sprite clipping and the arrays for the ceiling and floor.

I've previously posted my views of incorporating Build features into ZDoom.

Eevee · Post by **Eevee** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:55 pm

randy wrote:It maintains two one-dimensional arrays that keep track of where the ceiling and floor are, and these get updated as the scene is drawn.

Oh. Yeah, that would take a bit of work to change enough for multiple ceilings or floors.

Oh well. Well-faked 3D in a game that doesn't support it is much more impressive than just slapping ROR everywhere.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:58 pm

Eevee wrote:
randy wrote:It maintains two one-dimensional arrays that keep track of where the ceiling and floor are, and these get updated as the scene is drawn.
Oh. Yeah, that would take a bit of work to change enough for multiple ceilings or floors.

Oh well. Well-faked 3D in a game that doesn't support it is much more impressive than just slapping ROR everywhere.

Sure. But being able to build a solid bridge or something like that might be quite useful on occasion. If you want to see good use of ROR/3D-floor effects I recommend to check out Nimrod for Legacy.

Post by **Xaser** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:04 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:If you want to see good use of ROR/3D-floor effects I recommend to check out Nimrod for Legacy.

I would, Except of course of the fact it's for Legacy...

Giest118 · Post by **Giest118** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:06 pm

ColdRock wrote:/me rips Lexus foking head off and shit down the neck like i did HotWax. Hahaha.

It's FUCK not FOK. GET IT RIGHT!!!

Post by **Xaser** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:07 pm

fokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfok

Ugh. Now I'm starting to get tired of that word myself...

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:07 pm

Xaser wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:If you want to see good use of ROR/3D-floor effects I recommend to check out Nimrod for Legacy.
I would, Except of course of the fact it's for Legacy...

It's your own fault if that keeps you from playing it - even if it is the only good Legacy WAD out there.

ColdRock · Post by **ColdRock** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:26 pm

"After 2.1.0, the big thing I want to work on is renderer/engine improvements. I will probably go for using a hybrid Doom/Build map format internally for this, so I might also adapt the Build editor to work with it. I've also been thinking about how using a Build map format would make nice, clean 3D movement clipping possible without using the horrible hack job required to make it work with Doom's existing 2D movement clipping. I'm excited by the prospects for using a Build format internally, but if I don't do any work on it soon, that excitement will likely wane. "

I Thank You A Lot Randy.

Risen · Post by **Risen** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:33 pm

Actually it's usually Legacy itself that keeps me from playing it. The damn thing hasn't been stable on my box since... um... ever.

Post by **Xaser** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:45 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:...good Legacy...

Nice oxymoron there.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:48 pm

To be honest, Legacy is a total mess. A closer look at the source reveals that in many cases stuff that has been slapped together, is incomplete and in some case even frighteningly inept. I'm not surprised that so many users have problems with it. As a result Nimrod is the only WAD I'm using it for. Even the new C++ version that has been hailed countless times as a turning point doesn't look better.
The strangest thing is that Legacy is the only major source port that's maintained by a team but I can't see any positive effects of that - on the contrary!

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:49 pm

Xaser wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:...good Legacy...
Nice oxymoron there.

Hey, don't take the words out of context: I said 'good Legacy WAD'. There's no such thing as 'good Legacy'!

Post by **Xaser** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:53 pm

Yeah, good point, but you DID put the words "good" and "Legacy" right next to each other. That seems a bit strange, dont'cha think?

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:18 pm

good (Legacy WAD) != (good Legacy) WAD

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ZDOOM engine and BUILD engine ( DUKE, SHADOW WARRIOR etc )

Re: Okay!!

YES!!!! AWESOME!!!