OpenAL for sound?

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:57 am

I use MODPlug Player, because I couldn't notice any differences between it and Inertia Player. Also, back when I used XMP I didn't really like it and it didn't have AMF support.

deathz0r · Post by **deathz0r** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:30 pm

SlayeR wrote:XMPlay is about the only media player that plays modules correctly. And actually FMOD seems to be worse than winamp (at least for my doom mods anyway).

Deliplayer can also play modules perfectly. I've made some tempo-specific MODs that totally break with FMOD or Winamp, but work with ModPlug *, XMPlay and Deliplayer without any problems.

Post by **randi** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:04 pm

I had not considered using OpenAL for sound, and now that I've looked at it, I still don't think I'll use it. Not because it can't do music but because I can't find any drivers from Creative for my Audigy that actually expose any of the card's features beyond basic 3D audio. Even the beta drivers at their site that supposedly "Provides full OpenAL / EAX® ADVANCED HD support" is only an OpenAL 1.0 implementation exposing no extensions whatsoever. How ironic, since Creative are basically sponsoring OpenAL, why is it so hard to use their cards' features with it?

I have considered switching to FMOD Ex to make a Linux or Windows x86-64 version more likely, though.

P.S. Does anybody have links to mods that sound wrong with FMOD? Or is all this talk of FMOD (and WinAmp/MikMod) being horrible for mods nothing more than hyperbole?

QBasicer · Post by **QBasicer** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:09 pm

Well, the people that make BASS make XMPlay. I like Bass, but it doesn't do MIDIs.

wildweasel · Post by **wildweasel** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:15 pm

randy wrote:P.S. Does anybody have links to mods that sound wrong with FMOD? Or is all this talk of FMOD (and WinAmp/MikMod) being horrible for mods nothing more than hyperbole?

INFINITY.MOD by necros at this page is a good example. It only seems to play properly in Modplug though...even XMPlay chokes up on it.

Post by **Chris** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:17 pm

It only seems to play properly in Modplug though...

Mostly a MODPlug problem. That program seems to be pretty good at format hijacking. See: http://dumb.sourceforge.net/index.php?p ... oc=modplug

I wouldn't be surprised if FMOD and the Winamp plugin try to remain more faithful to MODPlug, but I don't know for certain.

Post by **randi** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:39 pm

wildweasel wrote:INFINITY.MOD

Wow... Just wow... This module is so wrong.

First, the song has a .MOD extension, implying that it's a ProTracker module. So I tried loading it in ProTracker, and it was scrambled. So I looked at it in a hex editor and saw that it was really a ScreamTracker module.

Second, after playing it with ScreamTracker, I played it with FMOD and WinAmp, and they sounded the same as the tracker. Then I tried it with ModPlug and was astonished to hear things that hadn't been audible before.

In conclusion, the only program that plays this song correctly is ModPlug because it was created with ModPlug Tracker using non-standard extensions to the S3M file format. Technically, since ModPlug plays the song differently from ScreamTracker, ModPlug is actually playing it wrong, even if it does play it the way Necros intended.

So, are there any songs that FMOD (or WinAmp) play differently from the original tracker? I think this module is an excellent example of why you can't use ModPlug to gauge the correctness of other players.

Edit: I just looked at the samples, and they claim the song was written for the Assembly '94 competition, which was before ModPlug Tracker. Still, not even ScreamTracker plays the song "correctly." Maybe it was edited in ModPlug Tracker later. I dunno...

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:46 pm

randy wrote:I tried loading it in ProTracker

Is that the ProTracker that opens .PSM files?
If so,

OMG WHERE DID YOU GET IT?
...Please. I have been looking for that for years.

Post by **randi** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:52 pm

I used ProTracker 1.3.

Use a real Amiga or UAE with a pre-AGA chipset.

Never heard of PSM before, but now that you got me curious, I googled it, and it looks like it's an internal format for Epic Megagames' (old) mod player in the same way that .UNI is internal to MikMod.

wildweasel · Post by **wildweasel** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:00 pm

.PSM stands for "ProTracker Studio Module" - which I assume means it was created in a "professional" version of ProTracker. I know a few of Epic's games used this format (notably OMF2097, Jazz Jackrabbit, and Epic Pinball).

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:11 pm

wildweasel wrote:I know a few of Epic's games used this format (notably OMF2097, Jazz Jackrabbit, and Epic Pinball).

That is exactly why I want it. No tracker I can find can open or play most of those files and I miss hearing them

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:09 am

http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/downl ... O/OMEN.MOD

WinAmp sounds like it's playing a different drum sample. ModPlug is slightly off as well.

http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/downl ... ndom_c.mod

What is that oddity between 1:44 and 1:46 in WinAmp?

As for infinity, ModPlug plays it exactly the same as Inertia v1.20 which was written in 1994. WinAmp is definitely in the wrong here.

Edit: Well the solution was simple enough. Some bug in Scream Tracker causes all channels except 2 3 4 to start on mute. Just unmute them (ALT-F10). Plays fine, WinAmp fails it.

BTW great mod. Has a definite 'Crusader: No Remorse' feel to it, especially in the drums section.

I think this module is an excellent example of why you can't use ModPlug to gauge the correctness of other players.

Nonsense.

Edit2: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~tympanic/bugs.htm

IMO the bugs in ModPlug are much less severe than those in WinAmp.

Edit3: http://www.mirsoft.info/index.php

I love this site. Bio will love it too

.

Post by **randi** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:23 pm

Belial wrote:http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/downl ... O/OMEN.MOD

WinAmp sounds like it's playing a different drum sample. ModPlug is slightly off as well.

Personally, I don't hear a difference between ProTracker and any of the players. Nor should I, since the only special effect it uses is a volume change.

http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/downl ... ndom_c.mod

What is that oddity between 1:44 and 1:46 in WinAmp?

The same "oddity" that is present when you play it with ProTracker. It looks like you found a ModPlug bug. There is some trickery going on at the end of order 26 that causes it to skip most of orders 27 and 28, and apparently ModPlug can't handle it properly. It looks like FMOD also gets it wrong in the same way as ModPlug.

As for infinity, ModPlug plays it exactly the same as Inertia v1.20 which was written in 1994. WinAmp is definitely in the wrong here.

Edit: Well the solution was simple enough. Some bug in Scream Tracker causes all channels except 2 3 4 to start on mute. Just unmute them (ALT-F10). Plays fine, WinAmp fails it.

This is not a Scream Tracker bug. It is a bug in ModPlug (and apparently Inertia) because they ignore the channel disabled bit in the song and start all the channels enabled. Here is the original version of the song. It seems whoever submitted it to modarchive messed up by, at the very least, giving it the wrong extension and turning off some channels.

Nonsense.

Really. The only way to be sure you're hearing a song correctly is to listen to it with the tracker that created the file format. I've now seen two songs used as examples of mods that other players play incorrectly because they don't play like ModPlug, even though ModPlug is the one playing them incorrectly.

Edit2: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~tympanic/bugs.htm

IMO the bugs in ModPlug are much less severe than those in WinAmp.

And according to that page, FMOD has only two bugs in module playback, neither of which is very severe, so I want to know where some people get the idea that it's horrible.

deathz0r · Post by **deathz0r** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:24 pm

http://deathz0r.unidoom.org/junk/cantouch.mod

Has tempo problems in FMOD and Winamp, Modplug/Deliplayer play it fine (I did make this mod with Modplug though, so I don't think it's Protracker compliant), XMPlay screws up the tempo with FastTracker 2 mode, but not with ProTracker 1 or normal mode.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:14 am

Personally, I don't hear a difference between ProTracker and any of the players. Nor should I, since the only special effect it uses is a volume change.

In my WinAmp the drum sample is pitched way too high.

The same "oddity" that is present when you play it with ProTracker. It looks like you found a ModPlug bug. There is some trickery going on at the end of order 26 that causes it to skip most of orders 27 and 28, and apparently ModPlug can't handle it properly.

Heh, I know that. I still think it's Inertia and ModPlug that are getting it right. This is the 'short-short version', the longer one had extra sections placed in those transition points and that screwup sounds like leftovers from deletion that they didn't care to fix properly because Inertia didn't mind.

This is not a Scream Tracker bug. It is a bug in ModPlug (and apparently Inertia) because they ignore the channel disabled bit in the song and start all the channels enabled.

It may not be a bug in ST but it sure as hell isn't one in Inertia or ModPlug either. More like a potential quirk of the format that was recognized and bypassed to allow people without trackers to listen to some mods which had such problems.

It seems whoever submitted it to modarchive messed up by, at the very least, giving it the wrong extension and turning off some channels.

He also changed the notes by moving them up a few tones (like a B-3 becoming a C#4) and he did a very good job IMO, as the 'remixed' version sounds slightly better than the original.

I want to know where some people get the idea that it's horrible.

Personal experience.

http://deathz0r.unidoom.org/junk/cantouch.mod

Nope, definitely not ModPlug specific. Inertia plays it fine, though I did have to change the speed option from NTSC to PAL.