[Not a bug] when textures and flats clash

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Expand view Topic review: [Not a bug] when textures and flats clash

Re: when textures and flats clash

by randi » Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:00 pm

SargeBaldy wrote:I guess this is kind of a bug...
No, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do, and I'm not changing it.

by SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:15 pm

Yeah, the one from the iwad comes in to "save the day" when I delete step2 :/ Oh well, guess I'll just have to include half a flat.

by Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:24 pm

Nanami wrote:We had something similar to this with ZooM... Running it in ZDoom works fine, but in SkullTag there's actually a flat with the same name as one of the light textures (which we had pasted on the ceiling), and the SkullTag wad overwrote it for some reason, and it looked stupid. We'll probably need to put the texture as a flat to use it.
Why don't you just rename it (or put it between TX_START/TX_END?)

by Nanami » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:36 pm

We had something similar to this with ZooM... Running it in ZDoom works fine, but in SkullTag there's actually a flat with the same name as one of the light textures (which we had pasted on the ceiling), and the SkullTag wad overwrote it for some reason, and it looked stupid. We'll probably need to put the texture as a flat to use it.

by Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:25 pm

Since the editor wouldn't display the original textures I don't see where the problem is.

by Enjay » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:43 am

OOOh, that does look like it behaves like you said.

I am aware of at least one situation where the original behaviour of removing textures was used. IIRC, it was one of NiGHTMARE's speed mapping events. He provided a WAD with custom textures, and removed all the original ones to restrict the mappers choice to the new ones. If someone made a map using Zdoom as their test bed, then they could presumably still include original textures and thereby break the WAD for any other port.

by Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:36 am

If I understand this correctly the new texture manager simply adds all TEXTUREx lumps without new ones completely overriding the ones in the IWAD. Here's the quote from RH-LOG.TXT:
- BTW, with the new texture system, you don't need to have every single texture
defined in a single TEXTURE1 or TEXTURE2 lump. You do need to restrict
yourself to just one TEXTURE1 and/or TEXTURE2 lump per wad, but they don't
need to contain definitions for all the textures from the IWAD, since each
wad's texture definitions are loaded separately.

by Enjay » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:58 am

I don't *think* they are truly cumulative. If you put some textures in a TEXTURE2 lump that were not in a TEXTURE1, they would be added to the total texture list. Editing TEXTURE1 to remove some original textures would work because the TEXTURE1 lump in the PWAD would be used in preference to the TEXTURE1 in the IWAD.

by Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:40 am

NiGHTMARE wrote:Instead of renaming the flat, why not rename the texture? Then you won't even have to include any "copyright breaking materials" because you can still use the existing patch.
TEXTUREx lumps are cumulative so this probably won't override the one in the IWAD.

by SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:43 am

Ah, thanks muchly Nightmare, I'll do that.

by NiGHTMARE » Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:08 am

Instead of renaming the flat, why not rename the texture? Then you won't even have to include any "copyright breaking materials" because you can still use the existing patch.

by SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:56 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Regarding the Doom Builder issue, that's a bug!
I am well aware of that. Anyway I don't care enough to argue this point any more.

by Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:35 am

I seriously doubt that anybody will complain if you add 2 graphics that are availavle in the shareware version of Doom1 to your WAD. People have been adding flats as textures and vice versa to their WADs for ages. I could point you to hundreds of them. These are 2 textures with 8192 bytes total so yes, I think this is ridiculous and the amount of work required to make any workaround work isn't worth it.

Regarding the Doom Builder issue, that's a bug!

by SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:49 am

Well, of course I wouldn't suggest the other way be true by default (although Doom Builder actually does read the flats before the texture, so in 3d mode it shows the graphic I wanted). But any "workaround" that requires me to include copyrighted Doom textures does seem very sloppy, when you consider the textures are already included in the iwad...

by Enjay » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:25 am

Definitely does not seem like a bug to me. Zdoom is handling this in a perfectly logical manner. To do otherwise by default would be silly, and break any wad that currently has STEP1 on a line. Coding a work around for a situation that is actually doing what it should seems pointless, especially as there is already a solution.

It's just one of those anomalies that have arisen from Zdoom allowing the flexibility of using a system that Doom never had, and so such clashes were unimportant. Now that the clashes have become an issue, Zdoom (or rather Randy) deals with it sensibly.

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