Im looking for a Doom64 weapons mod (only the weapons)

[YukiHerz]

Go right ahead, it's mostly based on my earlier work with YH-Doom 64, it's somewhere in the projects forum :V.

[Freaklore1]

The difference between Nevander and Haze-Bandicoot wads.

1-HB kept the D64 skins for the ammos while Nevander use only the weapons sprites everything else is vanilla Doom.

2-the shotgun reloading animations seems different for both of em,HB shotgun reload animation is a bit faster while Nevander is a bit slower.

3-HB pistol shooting animation doesnt seem as smooth as Nevander,also Nevander used a actual Desert Eagle sprite for the pick up sprite while HB is still vanilla pistol.

4-HB Plasma rifle balls are a bit more transparent and a bit more pale blue,while Nevander's are a bit more dark blue and not transparent.

5-Nevander's Unmaker start fully upgraded while HB start with no upgrade so you need to get them.

6-Some of the weapons in Nevander wad use dynamic lightings.

7-Nevander used D64 sounds for the weapons,while HB use vanilla Doom sound,also it seem HB chaingun sound seem to be glitchy.

[Nevander]

1 - I thought it would be better to keep the ammo vanilla since this is like the weapons only, and the weapons themselves use the same ammo as in D64, it's just that they have a different appearance in D64 itself.

2 - The animation does seem slow, playing it again now after playing HB's version. I may see if I can speed it up some so the gameplay isn't so slow, even though D64's is much slower.

3 - I like the way the pistol was smoothed out by the WMI Redux mod, so that's staying in for sure. The pickup sprite looks good too, I think it turned out good. We never see the pistol from the side angle, so the grip could either be black or brown, so I went with black.

4 - I was thinking about changing this once I saw HB's version. The plasma rifle in HB's version is actually pretty epic.

5 - I'm going to be changing mine to require the upgrades too like HB's version. There are at least three Cyberdemons in all Doom IWADs except for TNT on ITYTD and HNTR and that is countered by there being enough Spider Masterminds to provide enough for getting all the upgrades in one playthrough if you kill them all.

6 - I like dynamic lights.. a lot. I love the immersion and colors they provide. I worked out how to give hitscan weapons their own dynamic lights, so I made them all match up. I might tweak it further and modify the lights coming from the hitscan enemies to match.

7 - I don't know why the sound does that. I was thinking maybe it was just me or maybe my audio drivers were screwed but I guess not. Even with my version, the Chaingun kinda makes crackling noises when its fired constantly. Same with the Chainsaw, really easy to hear it there.

Regardless, I am working to improve my version with what I like from HB's.

[Freaklore1]

I think it would be better to make the Unmaker and it's upgrades drop by other enemies,not just the 2 bosses.

Depending on where other peoples put these 2 in their mods or none at all,means that there might be less chance of getting those or even getting a fully upgraded Unmaker by the time they reach the end of the original wads or mods. (exemple Doom 1)

So having Revenants (skeletons),Mancubus and Arachnotrons drop those too will give the players the chance to play more often with that weapon,just make the upgrades more rare to drop,so they dont get the fully overpowered version quickly.

[Nevander]

Version 2 of this mod is going to be bangin'. I got the upgrades set up and working flawlessly thanks to HB (seriously thanks for that dude, really improving this). Plasma Rifle looks much nicer now when it fires, which makes the plasma trail look even better too. And you know me, getting some sexy dynamic lights set up for the artifacts. Hell I could be done tonight if I keep going at it, which I think I will.

[YukiHerz]

I couldn't get dynamic lights for weapon firing work, a mix up of both mods will surely be epic.

[Freaklore1]

Here's a better explanation on why i think making the upgrades dropped only by the cyberdemon and spidermastermind isnt really a great idea.

Let's take Ultimate Doom for exemple,There's one cyberdemon at the end of episode 2 and one spidermastermind at the end of both episode 3 and 4,the problem is that once you defeat the boss it goes directly at the ending screen and you cant bring your weapons to the next episode,so you can kiss goodbye that Unmaker.

The only way to get a fully upgraded Unmaker would be to cheat by summoning the cyberdemon and spidermastermind using the console then killing them for their upgrades.

Also not every custom maps wads might have multiple cyberdemons/spidermastermind and some might even have none of em,or what about any custom wads wich are episodic like Doom 1 wich mean your weapons doesnt transfer to the next episode.

Keep the Unmaker having a 25% chance of replacing the BFG,but for the upgrades either make it drop by the enemies i mentioned (Revenants,Mancubus and Arachnotrons) and maybe the Baron of hells too since they are also higher ranked enemies and rarer and maybe make the upgrades has a % chance of replacing the spheres too.

Anything that will make the players have the chance of having a fully modified Unmaker or at least a Unmaker with 1 or 2 upgrades by the time they reach the end of the game or the end of an episode without the need of using the console command.

Edit: Oh and dont forget to credit HazeBandicoot for his help and resources for Version 2.

[Freaklore1]

I noticed something about the plasma rifle while playing Plutonia first map,it seem that HazeBandicoot plasma rifle kill a mancubus faster than your version Nevander and i think it's due to the fact that HB plasma rifle seem to shoot plasma balls faster unless it's my imagination,so compare the two and see if it's true.

Edit:i can confirm,the HB plasma rifle kill faster,it take about 4 secs to kill a mancubus,while your version take about 5-6 secs,also HB chaingun take about 6 secs to kill a mancubus,while your's take about 8-9 secs.But i did played D64 on a N64 emulator to see wich fire rates is the real one and it seem that Nevander version is the one with D64 true weapon fire rate,while HazeBandicoot weapons fire rate are at Vanilla Doom speed,that might explain why HB shotgun animation is faster.

One other thing,the plasma rifle has a blue energy thingie tube on it,i tought that it would be nice if the pick up for the Plamsa rifle would illuminate with a blue dynamic light because of that thing on the weapon.

Heck,maybe you could do the same thing with the BFG but with a green light instead,of course only the weapons using plasma energies (6-7) will have that dynamic lights effects for the pick up sprites,the other weapons wont. (1-5)

[Nevander]

I noticed something about the plasma rifle while playing Plutonia first map,it seem that HazeBandicoot plasma rifle kill a mancubus faster than your version Nevander and i think it's due to the fact that HB plasma rifle seem to shoot plasma balls faster unless it's my imagination,so compare the two and see if it's true.

Edit:i can confirm,the HB plasma rifle kill faster,it take about 4 secs to kill a mancubus,while your version take about 5-6 secs,also HB chaingun take about 6 secs to kill a mancubus,while your's take about 8-9 secs.But i did played D64 on a N64 emulator to see wich fire rates is the real one and it seem that Nevander version is the one with D64 true weapon fire rate,while HazeBandicoot weapons fire rate are at Vanilla Doom speed,that might explain why HB shotgun animation is faster.

Which do you prefer? Faster firing weapons (I've already tweaked the shotguns to be a tad faster) or slower ones?

One other thing,the plasma rifle has a blue energy thingie tube on it,i tought that it would be nice if the pick up for the Plamsa rifle would illuminate with a blue dynamic light because of that thing on the weapon.

Heck,maybe you could do the same thing with the BFG but with a green light instead,of course only the weapons using plasma energies (6-7) will have that dynamic lights effects for the pick up sprites,the other weapons wont. (1-5)

I was considering this except I thought that maybe they aren't powered on or something like that, and when you select the weapon it is, so maybe I could attach a light to the player when those weapons are selected and being used but not at the spawn state. I do have one attached to the Unmaker though as you may have seen, but that's a demonic weapon so anything goes.

[Freaklore1]

For the fire rate we should consider the fact that if it's slower in D64 it's because ID Software made it like that,how the levels were made,how enemies were carefuly positioned in the maps. It all centered over that gameplay speed.

But this is Vanilla Doom,so i guess it would be better to adjust the speed to Vanilla gameplay speed to not break the flow.

[wildweasel]

For the fire rate we should consider the fact that if it's slower in D64 it's because ID Software made it like that,how the levels were made,how enemies were carefuly positioned in the maps. It all centered over that gameplay speed.

But this is Vanilla Doom,so i guess it would be better to adjust the speed to Vanilla gameplay speed to not break the flow.

Don't forget either that if it's based on the exact tic-rates from the N64 game, the actual game speed was slowed down to 30 tics/second (since TVs ran at 60 Hz, instead of the 70 Hz most PC monitors used at the time), so sticking to the exact tic rates will make the guns seem faster.

[Freaklore1]

I tested the weapons again to see wich one should have a slight boost in it's fire rate,here are my toughts.

The fist,chainsaw,pistol,BFG and Unmaker are already at a decent speed so no need to make them faster.

The shotgun,super shotgun,chaingun,rocket launcher and plasma rifle are the one that need a slight fire rate boost.

[Freaklore1]

A question about the Unmaker,when you fire the weapon in D64,the laser look like an actual laser,but why doesnt it look like that here ?

Also Nevander about those weapons from Unabsolved by Aenima,it would be nice to have em,but you'll have to ask his permission first and also you will have to put them in a separate wad,so 2 wads with 1 for those that want only the D64 weapons and 1 for those that want the original weapons plus the Unabsolved ones.

[Nevander]

A question about the Unmaker,when you fire the weapon in D64,the laser look like an actual laser,but why doesnt it look like that here ?

Ask the original creators of WMI Redux, I don't know. It might not be possible to fire a laser looking projectile sideways like in D64. I've already tweaked the way the Unmaker fires anyway and I think it's a huge step up from both the laser and the way it was in version 1. It also will feature different flash states depending on the upgrade level. At the final upgrade, it's a pretty amazing light show.

Still thinking of how to handle the upgrade spawning. Right now it's still just Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind but I'm trying to think of an Ultimate Doom friendly way to do it. The best plan of action would be to center the upgrade scheme around a full playthrough of a standard 32-map set. In other words, you can't expect to get the Unmaker fully upgraded in a 5 map WAD. Thing is, Ultimate Doom doesn't follow that standard, it's split into episodes. You couldn't even get the Unmaker and its upgrades in Ultimate Doom throughout and expect to keep it for very long without some changes.

Let's look at the progression here:

Only two mini-boss enemies in episode 1, the two Barons of Hell at the end of E1M8, and no BFG. End of the episode is right after, all gear gone. Episode 2 we get more Barons, but they are only on higher difficulties, first Cyberdemon at the end, still no BFG. If you went to the secret level you could get it fully upgraded on any difficulty and if the Unmaker dropped from Barons or something by the end in episode 2, but then you just lose it again in three more levels. Episode three is basically the same case as episode 2, mostly Barons on higher difficulties. Secret level would grant you a quick upgrade. Episode four though, lol... there's 4 barons right away. That would not only grant you the Unmaker, but its three upgrades instantly for use in the entire episode.

So my thinking now is: make Barons drop the Unmaker and its upgrades too. The big drawback here though is that it would be super quick and easy to get it in Doom II or Plutonia. In MAP08 of Doom II, there's a Cyberdemon AND around 17 barons. Seventeen. Instantly upgraded Unmaker in no time. In Plutonia, Barons start showing up pretty much after the first two maps.

Now the solution would be to only have them drop from Barons in Ultimate Doom only, but I don't know how to do that. I don't think there's an IWAD check function in DECORATE. So that means that unfortunately I will most likely end up keeping it boss enemies only.

A good sub-solution might would be to make a WAD with only a MAPINFO lump just for Ultimate Doom which redefines and connects all the episodes together. This may have already been done, but I can't find it if it was. This would allow continuous play in Ultimate Doom and allow you to play it like it was Doom 2 or any other 32 map set. You could combine that WAD with this one and get the desired effect.

EDIT: Here's the MAPINFO WAD for Ultimate Doom. Makes it so all episodes are tied together. Please let me know if I screwed anything up, I made it fast and tested it fast.

ULTDOOMC.WAD

(7.84 KiB) Downloaded 491 times

Whew.. lotta work for one gun.


Anyway, some other things from version 2:

Plasma Rifle now has a better animation while firing (it moves). Shotgun and Super Shotgun is a bit faster. Chaingun felt fine to me, I think it's on par with vanilla Doom. I seemed to kill enemies just as fast as I would with the vanilla D2 weapons.

[Freaklore1]

So yeah i tried your Ultimate Doom mapinfo wad,so far so good,i skipped with IDCLEV to see if the cheat would affect the wad,but i didnt see any problem.

Just add your mapinfo wad with version 2 of the weapon wad for those that want to use the unmaker full potential with Ultimate Doom,and lets keep it with the 2 bosses no need for the barons of hell.

Edit:So just to make sure since i did not remember how much cyberdemons and spidermastermind were in Ultimate Doom i've checked again,for the cyberdemon there's one in E2M8,E3M9,E4M2,E4M6 and E4M7,as for the spidermastermind it's only in E3M8 and E4M8,but we can see that there's atleast enough cyberdemon to get a fully upgraded Unmaker by the time you reach E4M6.

Now,just waiting for your upload of version 2.