Zombies: Re-Animated [ZombiesTC Remastered]

[AstroCreep]

I’m thinking that I replaced so much stuff in IOTLD I prob don’t even really need the dehacked. I think all I would have to do is replace a few static actors with new decorate versions. I had rebuilt all the monsters and weapons in decorate so I don’t think anything would be affected other than the static’s. The main issue is how stupidly messy IOTLD’s wad file is. It would be quite a job just cleaning and arranging everything (as well as merging it with EEE)

[Dude27th]

I’m thinking that I replaced so much stuff in IOTLD I prob don’t even really need the dehacked. I think all I would have to do is replace a few static actors with new decorate versions. I had rebuilt all the monsters and weapons in decorate so I don’t think anything would be affected other than the static’s. The main issue is how stupidly messy IOTLD’s wad file is. It would be quite a job just cleaning and arranging everything (as well as merging it with EEE)

Yeah it happens, with my ZAMN mod I learned to be more organized while using .pk3 and their directories but now I'm revisiting and old Earthworm Jim mod and well..... it's not very well organized
By the way someone mentioned some time ago that it would be nice to have the IOTLD add-on working with it and I say no because it relayed heavily in EEE and didn' want to remake EEE to make it work. But after all it maybe isn't too much work to port, so if you get to clean it would be okay if I give it shot? Giving you credit for your work obviously, I'm asking as that would imply to not only port the add-on it would imply to port part of EEE as well.

[AstroCreep]

Yeah dude that is an absolutely great idea. You are welcome to any of my resources. I can prob try and get most of the stuff cleaned up into a new pk3 and see if I can’t get everything working as normal as a single pk3. Honestly it shouldn’t be too hard to get IOTLD working with your mod

[skdursh]

Nice to see an updated release of this old "classic". It's still not really my style because it doesn't really fix any of the core issues that the original had that led to it becoming a chore to play after an extended period, but the work you did looks nice and I guess keeps it true to the original design. Again, not my thing, but I appreciate it for what it is and I'm sure there are others out there getting weepy eyed and nostalgic having a good time reliving it.

[Dude27th]

Nice to see an updated release of this old "classic". It's still not really my style because it doesn't really fix any of the core issues that the original had that led to it becoming a chore to play after an extended period, but the work you did looks nice and I guess keeps it true to the original design. Again, not my thing, but I appreciate it for what it is and I'm sure there are others out there getting weepy eyed and nostalgic having a good time reliving it.

To be fair I've had recieved some commentaries that this mod still have the same "core issues" as the original.
But when I ask about these "core issues" the feedback usually is:
- The doors are not realistic
- The pickup sound it's kinda repetitive
- This is not a realistic zombie simulator
- Why humans bad?
- EEE is better as it is more relistic

So, would you care to elaborate? I'm kinda heart-broken about the lack of reception this mod has got

[AstroCreep]

Idk about this guy but most people that complain about these issues are referring to the maps, which ofc for an authentic project like this the maps wouldn’t be changed. I always had requests for remaking the maps for EEE

[skdursh]

Nice to see an updated release of this old "classic". It's still not really my style because it doesn't really fix any of the core issues that the original had that led to it becoming a chore to play after an extended period, but the work you did looks nice and I guess keeps it true to the original design. Again, not my thing, but I appreciate it for what it is and I'm sure there are others out there getting weepy eyed and nostalgic having a good time reliving it.

To be fair I've had recieved some commentaries that this mod still have the same "core issues" as the original.
But when I ask about these "core issues" the feedback usually is:
- The doors are not realistic
- The pickup sound it's kinda repetitive
- This is not a realistic zombie simulator
- Why humans bad?
- EEE is better as it is more relistic

So, would you care to elaborate? I'm kinda heart-broken about the lack of reception this mod has got

I don't really care that it's not realistic, it's just the whole wave based gameplay isn't really fun for me. I like having an objective, like some sort of mission to complete and the Zombies TC is just wave after the wave of the same enemies presenting the same challenge. Also, once you understand the zombie AI there is very little challenge in beating them and it becomes more a war of attrition than anything else. It can be fun to play at first, but the experience begins to drag after the first map or two. Also, the maps themselves while probably interesting for the time that they were released are very small and limiting compared to what most people are used to now. This sort of thing would probably work a lot better if it was in a quasi open-world location with more to explore, see and do while fighting off the ever present threat. Beyond that, this is just a personal thing, but I absolutely cannot stand the repetitive voice clips. Zombies should moan and growl or whatever, not repeat the same exact phrase over and over and over.

Edit: Turns out I might be thinking of a completely different mod according to the user who commented below so I'm going to load yours up now and see.

[AstroCreep]

I think you are confusing this with Invasion of the Living Dead, which is an add on I created for my update of Zombies, Zombies: EEE. That’s the only wave based version of this tc. The original was much more like doom, as in you kill the monsters, find the keys and then exit lol. IOTLD was also designed with multiplayer in mind, it’s bound to get a bit boring by yourself lol. I was originally planning more levels, like stuff based off of other zombie movies/games like Zombi 2 and Resident Evil, but I never got around to it.

[skdursh]

I think you are confusing this with Invasion of the Living Dead, which is an add on I created for my update of Zombies, Zombies: EEE. That’s the only wave based version of this tc. The original was much more like doom, as in you kill the monsters, find the keys and then exit lol. IOTLD was also designed with multiplayer in mind, it’s bound to get a bit boring by yourself lol. I was originally planning more levels, like stuff based off of other zombie movies/games like Zombi 2 and Resident Evil, but I never got around to it.

Shit. Maybe you're right. So wait, what is the mod where the first level you are at a gas station with a little diner next door and you have to kill multiple waves of zombies? I thought that was just called Zombies TC. Is that really something completely different? I also remember some level in what I think was a news station and another at a small house in the middle of nowhere. Where I pretty much stopped playing was when I got to some multilevel apartment complex level but it was really, really bare bones.

[Dude27th]

I think you are confusing this with Invasion of the Living Dead, which is an add on I created for my update of Zombies, Zombies: EEE. That’s the only wave based version of this tc. The original was much more like doom, as in you kill the monsters, find the keys and then exit lol. IOTLD was also designed with multiplayer in mind, it’s bound to get a bit boring by yourself lol. I was originally planning more levels, like stuff based off of other zombie movies/games like Zombi 2 and Resident Evil, but I never got around to it.

Shit. Maybe you're right. So wait, what is the mod where the first level you are at a gas station with a little diner next door and you have to kill multiple waves of zombies? I thought that was just called Zombies TC. Is that really something completely different? I also remember some level in what I think was a news station and another at a small house in the middle of nowhere. Where I pretty much stopped playing was when I got to some multilevel apartment complex level but it was really, really bare bones.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I'M SO PISSED OFF!

The mod are you thinking of is "Zombies: Extreme Epidemic Edition" which is a mod BASED in a mod from 1995 called "Zombies TC" but EEE changes completely the gameplay, the weapons, the items, the enemy AI and it makes it completely a different experience.

But IcarusLives fucking confused them both , probably for sheer ignorance about the original mod and now everyone thinks that "Extreme Epidemic Edition" is the same that ZombiesTC and for me this is straight up disrespectful to the original devs of the mod, as it "Extreme Epidemic Edition" steal the original devs work claiming it was all AstroCreep efforts (Even tho I know that wasn't AstroCreep intentions)

So now, nobody fucking knows what this "Re-Animated" version is about and fucking it would be dead soon equally as the original version because it went under the radar for many people and Icarus prefer to review "yetanothercommunitymappack" instead....

[Dude27th]

And sorry for the rant but I'm really tired about trying to bring up this mod as it was, to no effort because people didn' bother playing it the original version and people responding with "where's mah EEE" or "this is a weird EEE version"


Also the maps which are you thinking about is an yet another version of Zombies TC, beign less cynical is "Invasion Of The Living Dead" which is an expansion to "Zombies: EEE" which are a collection of wave based maps which utilizes the full potential of the hordes and class system of EEE

[AstroCreep]

In my defense i clearly put T.C.H.G. As the original mod authors and stated multiple times that eee was an update of an old tc. I try to put things up to make credit and such as clear as possible and no matter what you try nobody reads it. Even icarus states in his video that it is an update of a classic Doom TC. Not much else we can do to make it any more clear lol.

[Dude27th]

In my defense i clearly put T.C.H.G. As the original mod authors and stated multiple times that eee was an update of an old tc. I try to put things up to make credit and such as clear as possible and no matter what you try nobody reads it. Even icarus states in his video that it is an update of a classic Doom TC. Not much else we can do to make it any more clear lol.

Yeah I know, it seems like he didn't played the original as well because he didn't notice the differences and he calling the mod "ZombiesTC" it surely didn't help.
Anyway I'll probably just gonna make a couple of updates to make it cleaner and to see if IOTLD can be implemented and then move on with other projects.

[jdredalert]

Dude i think you need to calm down a little. It's been only one week since you posted the mod, you can't expect that a new mod based on the classic Zombies TC becomes a insta-hit - and funny enough, you did went from zero to one of the mods of the week in Moddb, which screams "success" to me. I would say that it is too soon to be heart broken yet.

Now, there are some things to consider here. The original Zombies TC mod comes from the 90's, the stone age of Doom modding. It was the best people back then could do and that's awesome for historical reasons, but for today's standards, it is flawed and rough around all the edges. So maybe you would like to work on the three pillars of the game:

1. Presentation

People judge a book for it's cover. ZTC presentation is all over the place, the original sound effects aren't good, artwork aged poorly and the real star of the show, the zombies, don't click as John Romero's zombies for me at all. The first thing i would say is to address those weak points of the original mod. For a mod that claims to be a remaster of the old ZTC, i would say some things still need some remastering. Grab some new weapon and zombie sounds, update the weapons (add new muzzle flashes and smooth animations for example), invest some time into the little details like new lights and particle effects and if you feel up to, ramp up the gore. Make things look fresh and new, even if you're aiming to keep the essence of the classic game.

2. Gameplay

So far, the gameplay consists in pointing and shooting and that's it. Point and shoot isn't bad per se, it's the foundation of the FPS genre, but if the combat isn't varied or dynamic things become boring real quick. The zombies are all melee, so they are already at disadvantage. I know there's only a little one could do about zombies, but still, try to make them feel more like a threat, more intimidating. Damage types and damage factors could change the pace of the game completely (making zombies more or less resistant to different firearms, at the same time they would affect humans differently, for example). Also, teach your zombies new tricks. I know you made them faster and even one of them can now leap, but what else can a zombie do? Maybe they could "fake" their death and rise again to try eat you one more time? Or you could play by the good old zombie rules and straight add headshots, so they will only truly die with a bullet between the eyes?

3. Environment

This one is optional, but would be a welcoming addition. Edit the maps. Even if you don't want to create new maps, or don't feel like you have enough skill to create new maps, but you can always edit the old ones. Again, injecting some new life to the old undead game. Add new rooms to existing maps. Try to make them look more natural and believable. Think of Duke Nukem 3D, and how the movie theater and the bookstore at LA Meltdown looks and feels like real places, despite the graphical limitations. Sorry to repeat myself here, but you can't call the mod a remaster if you don't remaster things, and the original maps screams for remastering. You can also add new twists on the old maps, like traps. Got the item, but now the lights are out, or a monster closet that opens when you're not expecting.

I know it's a great wall of text. But since you were asking for feedback, i thought that would be nice to show you were you can improve and not limit myself to the old "this door isnt realistic" kind of feedback.

[ZikShadow]

I imagine one of the reasons that this mod not being a big hitter as well is the fact that this is still technically a rework of an old existing mod, one that many have played before, some over and over. While the intent to keep to the original spirit is noble, the original itself isn't really what you'd call a flawless masterpiece. EEE adding in new behaviors and even new guns along with sprites + sounds (that one was partially on me, sorry if that turned you off) was part of the reason why I went back in the first place.

One of the major problems of the original that both EEE and this didn't address is the fact that the level design was a bit dull. From the news station all the way to the military base, endless featureless corridors. Some maps had REALLY LONG corridors with nothing in them, too. Cutting them down, streamlining the whole thing so it's not a backtrack-fest, maybe improving how they look is the first step to making this a true remake. See Operation: Arctic Wolf Redux for an example, that mod kept the spirit of the original while tearing down everything that I hate about the original, that's one mod I'd actually recommend over the original.