The [ZDoom Community MAP] Project

Post by **TheDarkArchon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:14 pm

Nightmare was designed for (and thus is only useful to) Masochists and Master Players. Anyone else had to avoid it. The thing is everyone has completed it on Ultra-Violence but most players find Nightmare too hard. It needs changed.

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:19 pm

You do not need to change something that's already feasible. If you want newbie-nightmare, just set it to ultraviolence and enable sv_fastmonsters. Seroiusly, how hard is that?

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:23 pm

TheDarkArchon wrote:Nightmare was designed for (and thus is only useful to) Masochists and Master Players. Anyone else had to avoid it. The thing is everyone has completed it on Ultra-Violence but most players find Nightmare too hard. It needs changed.

Nightmare! is not meant for most players. You may recall that early versions of DOOM did not have it at all - it was only added so people who found UV too easy would have a new challenge.

Seriously, complaining about Nightmare! being too hard is like complaining about Hell Revealed being too hard. It's fucking *meant* to be.

Woolie Wool · Post by **Woolie Wool** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:23 pm

TheDarkArchon wrote:Nightmare was designed for (and thus is only useful to) Masochists and Master Players. Anyone else had to avoid it. The thing is everyone has completed it on Ultra-Violence but most players find Nightmare too hard. It needs changed.

I've heard that Doom II wasn't completed on Nightmare by anyone until about 1997, when Anthe Kren submitted a real, cheat-free nm30 demo to the COMPET-N.

Interesting note: Have you noticed that with fast monsters on, the pinky demon is the only monster that actually moves faster? Other monsters don't go any faster but will spam you relentlessly with attacks like the chaingunner does on all skill levels.

Yeah, NM is a "you asked for it, wankers!" type of thing. It's named "Watch me die!" in my Crimson Sky partial conversion for a reason.

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:27 pm

Woolie: Only monsters that don't have a far attack will actually move faster. However, all monsters will react much faster, and projectiles also move faster.

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:27 pm

Woolie Wool wrote:
TheDarkArchon wrote:Nightmare was designed for (and thus is only useful to) Masochists and Master Players. Anyone else had to avoid it. The thing is everyone has completed it on Ultra-Violence but most players find Nightmare too hard. It needs changed.
I've heard that Doom II wasn't completed on Nightmare by anyone until about 1997, when Anthe Kren submitted a real, cheat-free nm30 demo to the COMPET-N.

Interesting note: Have you noticed that with fast monsters on, the pinky demon is the only monster that actually moves faster? Other monsters don't go any faster but will spam you relentlessly with attacks like the chaingunner does on all skill levels.

Spectres also move faster. ^_~ As for other monsters, you'll notice that their attacks (like Imp's fireballs, Baron's slimeblobs etc.) are faster than usual.

EDIT: Oh, and COMPET-N has a 30NM movie from 1996, by Steffen Winterfeldt:

All 11.05.1996. 30nm6520 65:20

Woolie Wool · Post by **Woolie Wool** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:30 pm

Is it even possible to beat map06 and map09 of Mock 2 on Nightmare?

(map06 is the big room with 702 Cyberdemons, and map09 is the big yard with 993 Cacodemons)

Post by **TheDarkArchon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:36 pm

"sv_cheats 1" then "kill monsters"

Post by **Kappes Buur** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:23 pm

Woolie Wool wrote:Is it even possible to beat map06 and map09 of Mock 2 on Nightmare? ...

----->> mdk

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:25 pm

Kappes Buur wrote:
Woolie Wool wrote:Is it even possible to beat map06 and map09 of Mock 2 on Nightmare? ...
----->> mdk 8-)

mdk?

Post by **Kappes Buur** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:32 pm

arcticwolf wrote:mdk?

bind a key to it, I usually use q
q=mdk
Look squarely at the beastie and try it. You'll like it.

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:52 am

*tries it in E2M8* Oooookaaaay...

Lexus Alyus · Post by **Lexus Alyus** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:16 am

WTF is all this talk about removing nightmare? It's ridiculouse. Nobody is making you play it, it's just there for a bit of fun... if you don't like it then don't use it!

Post by **Enjay** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:26 am

I wasn't talking about removing nightmare. I was talking about being able to optionaly replace nightmare in the menu with something more usable.

I never use nightmare, so, ultimately - I guess - it's pretty irrelevant whether it's there or not. I also rarely use -fast monsters. However, if my start game menu had an option that gave me fast monsters that didn't respawn I'd possibly use it quite a bit (ie nightmare without the respawn).

So that's what I'm suggesting. A way of making a non-respawning version of nightmare easily available from the start menu as an option. For those that want to keep nightmare as it is, don't engage the option - nothing is removed. For the rest of the population, nightmare is pretty much useless, so lets have an option of something more useful instead.

It strikes me as something that is easily possible and would actually give purpose to the final difficulty menu option for most people. So why not?

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:40 am

Because. Don't you know options are teh evil and completely change the very nature of Doom and indeed the entire fabric of the universe even when not used?