by Rachael » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:38 am
WilliamMacau wrote:Graf Zahl wrote:Normal people replace any technical device once they realize that it no longer serves their needs.
It's just the losers which whine and complain about the evil world that is against them.
Yeah, right, you are quite normal. You are the type of people that would replace the Mona Lisa with a more "cool one" if you could.
It's that I'm not here to please the "God-Almighty Developer", it's just that.
Are these attacks really needed? All you're doing is proving Graf's point. And I agree with Graf on this one point: You are one of those 10 holding back the other 1000.
I can understand it's a real issue when you don't have money. I know first hand the frustrations of dealing with not having money. But eventually, you DO have to move on. Even a cheap $50 laptop can handle GZDoom just fine these days. The newer versions, at that. Go out, offer to cut some of your neighbor's grass, and save your money. I promise you, you won't regret it. It's really not so horrible to have to do a little bit of work to play games.
I was clinging to Windows 8.1 like a pest up until the very last day that I could upgrade to Windows 10 for free. And I am still kicking and screaming about that upgrade. But eventually, I did it. I did it because I knew that while I might not need Windows 10 today, there will come a day when I will. Because having a free upgrade will help a lot more than it will hurt. Because IT IS TIME TO MOVE THE BLOODY HELL ON. That is why DRD Team isn't stuck on phpBB 3.0.x. Because despite the issues, you just have to move on, someday. ZDoom itself is a testament to that - you just simply can not run any modern version of ZDoom on DOS, nor on an 80386 machine that DOOM was originally designed for. Those systems are long in the past, and even if you somehow managed to get ZDoom to run, it would run horribly on such a system. Because support for it had to be dropped at some point.
Graf is not being the "God-Almighty Developer." He knows, just as any other developer of any other open source project, that his work can be forked. And -
lo and bloody behold! Wait, there's more, too!
This isn't 1998 anymore. You aren't paying the developers here for their work, and holy hell have they done more than enough of it to justify a $60 price tag that usually comes with a triple-A title. If you won't show some appreciation for their work, the least you could do is show a little restraint, no matter how frustrating things get.
Also - another little anecdote to add to this: Graf spent two weeks tinkering with my computer that had an ATI HD 4850. Eventually, he had to drop support for it, as well, at least as far as new features go, because the driver is in such a hopeless state that it is beyond fixing. It's fine - I run a laptop that has a much newer GPU anyway. GZDoom will only run on it now in OpenGL 2.x mode. Oh well. Life goes on. At least it still runs GZDoom. But I saw, first hand, how horrible and painful that was for him. I was there. And believe me, it IS a lot of work.
EDIT: Also - per your comment about a "more cool" Mona Lisa:
Spoiler:
Have a nice day!
WilliamMacau wrote:No, no. Not make me cry actually, but very angry, mister.
IT'S ABSURD TO NEED TONS OF RAM AND CPU POWER TO RUN A EMULATOR OF SUCH SIMPLE GAMES.
No, it really is not. Because sometimes you need a better system to emulate the older systems. This is not a 1 to 1 CPU emulation we're talking about here - this is an entire hardware system being emualted BY YOUR CPU. An entire system with its own quirks, nuances, and manufacturer defects that developers took advantage of for years to gain some sort of edge. There's more at work than just presenting some fake CPU that allows the game to run. And increasing the system requirements DOES make sense, because back in the past some things were not possible with that emulator that are now.
You know what's going to happen in 20 years when virtual machines start emulating what we use today? The same thing. Those machines will be expected to fully emulate our GPU's *AND* our CPU's, plus numerous other components. That's going to take a lot of resources that we just simply cannot imagine, today.
[quote="WilliamMacau"][quote="Graf Zahl"]Normal people replace any technical device once they realize that it no longer serves their needs.
It's just the losers which whine and complain about the evil world that is against them.[/quote]
Yeah, right, you are quite normal. You are the type of people that would replace the Mona Lisa with a more "cool one" if you could.
It's that I'm not here to please the "God-Almighty Developer", it's just that.[/quote]
Are these attacks really needed? All you're doing is proving Graf's point. And I agree with Graf on this one point: You are one of those 10 holding back the other 1000.
I can understand it's a real issue when you don't have money. I know first hand the frustrations of dealing with not having money. But eventually, you DO have to move on. Even a cheap $50 laptop can handle GZDoom just fine these days. The newer versions, at that. Go out, offer to cut some of your neighbor's grass, and save your money. I promise you, you won't regret it. It's really not so horrible to have to do a little bit of work to play games.
I was clinging to Windows 8.1 like a pest up until the very last day that I could upgrade to Windows 10 for free. And I am still kicking and screaming about that upgrade. But eventually, I did it. I did it because I knew that while I might not need Windows 10 today, there will come a day when I will. Because having a free upgrade will help a lot more than it will hurt. Because IT IS TIME TO MOVE THE BLOODY HELL ON. That is why DRD Team isn't stuck on phpBB 3.0.x. Because despite the issues, you just have to move on, someday. ZDoom itself is a testament to that - you just simply can not run any modern version of ZDoom on DOS, nor on an 80386 machine that DOOM was originally designed for. Those systems are long in the past, and even if you somehow managed to get ZDoom to run, it would run horribly on such a system. Because support for it had to be dropped at some point.
Graf is not being the "God-Almighty Developer." He knows, just as any other developer of any other open source project, that his work can be forked. And - [url=http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=48994&hilit=gloome]lo and[/url] [url=http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=49451&hilit=gzdoom+gpl]bloody behold![/url] [url=http://zandronum.com/]Wait, there's more, too![/url]
This isn't 1998 anymore. You aren't paying the developers here for their work, and holy hell have they done more than enough of it to justify a $60 price tag that usually comes with a triple-A title. If you won't show some appreciation for their work, the least you could do is show a little restraint, no matter how frustrating things get.
Also - another little anecdote to add to this: Graf spent two weeks tinkering with my computer that had an ATI HD 4850. Eventually, he had to drop support for it, as well, at least as far as new features go, because the driver is in such a hopeless state that it is beyond fixing. It's fine - I run a laptop that has a much newer GPU anyway. GZDoom will only run on it now in OpenGL 2.x mode. Oh well. Life goes on. At least it still runs GZDoom. But I saw, first hand, how horrible and painful that was for him. I was there. And believe me, it IS a lot of work.
EDIT: Also - per your comment about a "more cool" Mona Lisa:
[spoiler][img]http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsgbpkvWIO1qi17k7o1_500.gif[/img][/spoiler]
Have a nice day!
[quote="WilliamMacau"]No, no. Not make me cry actually, but very angry, mister.
IT'S ABSURD TO NEED TONS OF RAM AND CPU POWER TO RUN A EMULATOR OF SUCH SIMPLE GAMES.[/quote]
No, it really is not. Because sometimes you need a better system to emulate the older systems. This is not a 1 to 1 CPU emulation we're talking about here - this is an entire hardware system being emualted BY YOUR CPU. An entire system with its own quirks, nuances, and manufacturer defects that developers took advantage of for years to gain some sort of edge. There's more at work than just presenting some fake CPU that allows the game to run. And increasing the system requirements DOES make sense, because back in the past some things were not possible with that emulator that are now.
You know what's going to happen in 20 years when virtual machines start emulating what we use today? The same thing. Those machines will be expected to fully emulate our GPU's *AND* our CPU's, plus numerous other components. That's going to take a lot of resources that we just simply cannot imagine, today.