You can see things up close in the dark

Forum rules
Please don't bump threads here if you have a problem - it will often be forgotten about if you do. Instead, make a new thread here.

Post a reply

Smilies
:D :) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :geek: :ugeek: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen: :3: :wub: >:( :blergh:
View more smilies

BBCode is OFF
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: You can see things up close in the dark

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by NeuralStunner » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:The number of light levels was not reduced. Just the 'too bright' case was explicitly handled.
Ah, okay.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by Graf Zahl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:39 pm

The number of light levels was not reduced. Just the 'too bright' case was explicitly handled.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by NeuralStunner » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:02 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:No, for that the number of light levels had to be reduced.
Optionally I hope. :?

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by Graf Zahl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:13 am

Edward-san wrote:Even better int32_t ?

/me hides

That'd be an SDWORD in ZDoom terms. And if you ask me, yes, these variable type names do bother me and I'd happily replace them with their C99 equivalents if this was my project alone.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by Graf Zahl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:09 am

No, for that the number of light levels had to be reduced. But it handles the 'too bright' case explicitly now.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by Blue Shadow » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:17 pm

I see the thread's been given a "Fixed" tag, does that mean it now behaves just like vanilla?

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by randi » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:18 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:All variables should be ints if you ask me.
Hey, back when this project started, conserving memory still meant something.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by Edward-san » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:13 pm

Even better int32_t ?

/me hides

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by Graf Zahl » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:57 pm

randy wrote:I turned it into a byte...


I have to say that this kind of 'efficiency' has been the cause of far too many problems already. All variables should be ints if you ask me.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by esselfortium » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:39 pm

Yeah, I believe it goes from -32768 to 32767.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by randi » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:35 pm

You can do that? I turned it into a byte because I trusted the unofficial editing docs that said it only used values 0-255 without actually confirming the reality of that claim. Oops.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by NeuralStunner » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:42 pm

esselfortium wrote:In vanilla and most other ports, you can use a light level like, say, 5000
Holy cow, I thought that was an 8-bit value in vanilla map format. :shock:

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by esselfortium » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:24 pm

randy wrote:Here is the discussion the last time this came up, mixed in with discussion of COLORMAPS: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 0&start=10
What I wrote then still stands: It's not a simple one-line fix, and since the conditions where it's most noticeable are limited, it doesn't seem worth the effort.

Also, might I also mention that in standard Doom, floors and ceilings are allowed to get much brighter as they get closer to you than are walls? You can't really see in it Doom, since you can't pan the view up or down. It might be possible to construct a 0-brightness map in Heretic and Hexen and see it there, though I haven't tried. This is a consequence of Doom precalculating 16 tables for lighting (hence the reason it has only 16 real light levels) but accessing them differently for walls vs floors.

Which also raises the question: Is the clamp on maximum brightness of walls in Doom a conscious design decision, or was it simply a consequence of their lookup tables? Was it even considered in any way at all? What ZDoom does is basically identical to Doom but without the lookup tables.
Speaking of clamps on brightness, randy, is there any chance of ZDoom adding back support for light levels outside the 0-255 range? In vanilla and most other ports, you can use a light level like, say, 5000, combined with the Light Glow sector special, to cause the sector to remain fullbright for several seconds before it begins visibly fading back down. In ZDoom, it immediately fades back down as soon as it reaches fullbright (as though it were somehow internally clamping light levels to a 0-255 range when loading the map), so the timing control is lost.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by randi » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:18 pm

Here is the discussion the last time this came up, mixed in with discussion of COLORMAPS: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 0&start=10
What I wrote then still stands: It's not a simple one-line fix, and since the conditions where it's most noticeable are limited, it doesn't seem worth the effort.

Also, might I also mention that in standard Doom, floors and ceilings are allowed to get much brighter as they get closer to you than are walls? You can't really see in it Doom, since you can't pan the view up or down. It might be possible to construct a 0-brightness map in Heretic and Hexen and see it there, though I haven't tried. This is a consequence of Doom precalculating 16 tables for lighting (hence the reason it has only 16 real light levels) but accessing them differently for walls vs floors.

Which also raises the question: Is the clamp on maximum brightness of walls in Doom a conscious design decision, or was it simply a consequence of their lookup tables? Was it even considered in any way at all? What ZDoom does is basically identical to Doom but without the lookup tables.

Re: You can see things up close in the dark

by NeuralStunner » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:12 pm

Gez wrote:It just so happens that vanilla behavior is kinda resolution-dependent, and doesn't brighten as much with screenblocks 10 or 11. ZDoom is more consistent.
I'm guessing Id did this intentionally to improve visibility for those that needed the small screen size for performance reasons.

Top