Lumpy wrote:Actually they do. Type IDKFA (or IDFA) right before you try to pick up a chainsaw and see what happens. If there is an essential script that must be run when you pick up that chainsaw your screwed.
Then maybe ZDoom should let you pick up multiple chainsaws. Seriously, now you're just nitpicking. The fix for picking up multiple keys would take less than what you've just written, BTW.
Thats the point of cheat codes, to break through the normal limitations of the game.
By limiting the player more?
I also agree that this is getting a little bit rediculious. I don't even care anymore. I guess I just don't see why everybody wants this.
1) This is how the original Doom did it.
A) So what ZDoom does a lot of things that the original wouldn't, and
couldn't do. Why don't we all go over to the legacy forums and ask
them to get rid of the 3D floors because the original Doom wasn't
actually 3D. Or ask JDoom to get rid of the coronas, or go tell
SkullTag to get rid of all those extra weapons and items.
Wow, you just leaped the largest hurdle in the world and turned one statement into a whole different concept. Nobody on here is saying any of what you just said, why infer that they are? There's a difference between not wanting
anything improved from vanilla Doom and wanting to ensure compatibility with old maps. Why hasn't Randy fixed all of Doom's slight inconsistancies in precision and such? Because old maps might use them or might be incompatible. Why hasn't he scrapped the WAD format or map format for something better? Same reason. Why with the last few versions has he bothered to get old WADs that were improperly made working with his new texturing system so they work again? Because in addition to being fans of ZDoom, we're all fans of Doom, and we want any level made for vanilla Doom to work in ZDoom if at all possible. That includes levels that for some reason include multiple keys, particularly since it means no negative side-effects for any
other maps and would take all of a single line of code to implement.
2) I want to be able to assign a special to that extra key, or keys.
A) Use something else that will be more likely be picked up by the
player.
B) If your level has any scripting at all you could simply take the key
away, and then the player will be able to pick-up the second key. In
a way you must do this anyway, because if the player already has
that key what is going to intice him to pick up another one.
A: Um. If the player wants to complete the level, he kind of
has to pick up the key. Who needs "be more likely be" (nice englinsch
) when they
have to.
B: This isn't about levels with multiple keys. It's about map designers wanting to test their maps more easily, or the player who wants to cheat and still be able to complete the level he's playing. Using scripting you
could still make multiple keys worthwhile to the player, however (see my earlier post for an example), but you could use something else too. In any case, I don't think this was ever anyone's argument.
3) I want to enjoy the levels that were made just to make fun of; Doom,
source ports, and Doomers in general (Like Mock).
A) Take your riddilin, and finish the level (and/or megawad).
Why is it that when somebody doesn't have a valid argument they start insulting people? And if it's us who are on riddlen, why isn't any one on the other side of the argument paying attention? Once again, there
are reasons to make this change, whether you like them or not. Because vanilla Doom did it, because it would make a mapper's job that much easier, because people are going to cheat and if it's at all possible to avoid breaking the level when they do, then the level should remain unbroken.
Multiple people have already said the same things, but all you're seeing is what you want to see. Give us a
good reason not to make the change. No insults, or mindless banter (giest), or any comments about crazy people. Just a good, solid reason why
not to let people pick up multiple keys. We're all waiting.
[quote="Lumpy"]Actually they do. Type IDKFA (or IDFA) right before you try to pick up a chainsaw and see what happens. If there is an essential script that must be run when you pick up that chainsaw your screwed.[/quote]
Then maybe ZDoom should let you pick up multiple chainsaws. Seriously, now you're just nitpicking. The fix for picking up multiple keys would take less than what you've just written, BTW.
[quote]Thats the point of cheat codes, to break through the normal limitations of the game.[/quote]
By limiting the player more?
[quote]I also agree that this is getting a little bit rediculious. I don't even care anymore. I guess I just don't see why everybody wants this.
1) This is how the original Doom did it.
A) So what ZDoom does a lot of things that the original wouldn't, and
couldn't do. Why don't we all go over to the legacy forums and ask
them to get rid of the 3D floors because the original Doom wasn't
actually 3D. Or ask JDoom to get rid of the coronas, or go tell
SkullTag to get rid of all those extra weapons and items.[/quote]
Wow, you just leaped the largest hurdle in the world and turned one statement into a whole different concept. Nobody on here is saying any of what you just said, why infer that they are? There's a difference between not wanting [b]anything[/b] improved from vanilla Doom and wanting to ensure compatibility with old maps. Why hasn't Randy fixed all of Doom's slight inconsistancies in precision and such? Because old maps might use them or might be incompatible. Why hasn't he scrapped the WAD format or map format for something better? Same reason. Why with the last few versions has he bothered to get old WADs that were improperly made working with his new texturing system so they work again? Because in addition to being fans of ZDoom, we're all fans of Doom, and we want any level made for vanilla Doom to work in ZDoom if at all possible. That includes levels that for some reason include multiple keys, particularly since it means no negative side-effects for any [b]other[/b] maps and would take all of a single line of code to implement.
[quote]2) I want to be able to assign a special to that extra key, or keys.
A) Use something else that will be more likely be picked up by the
player.
B) If your level has any scripting at all you could simply take the key
away, and then the player will be able to pick-up the second key. In
a way you must do this anyway, because if the player already has
that key what is going to intice him to pick up another one.[/quote]
A: Um. If the player wants to complete the level, he kind of [b]has[/b] to pick up the key. Who needs "be more likely be" (nice englinsch :roll:) when they [b]have to[/b].
B: This isn't about levels with multiple keys. It's about map designers wanting to test their maps more easily, or the player who wants to cheat and still be able to complete the level he's playing. Using scripting you [b]could[/b] still make multiple keys worthwhile to the player, however (see my earlier post for an example), but you could use something else too. In any case, I don't think this was ever anyone's argument.
[quote]3) I want to enjoy the levels that were made just to make fun of; Doom,
source ports, and Doomers in general (Like Mock).
A) Take your riddilin, and finish the level (and/or megawad).[/quote]
Why is it that when somebody doesn't have a valid argument they start insulting people? And if it's us who are on riddlen, why isn't any one on the other side of the argument paying attention? Once again, there [b]are[/b] reasons to make this change, whether you like them or not. Because vanilla Doom did it, because it would make a mapper's job that much easier, because people are going to cheat and if it's at all possible to avoid breaking the level when they do, then the level should remain unbroken.
Multiple people have already said the same things, but all you're seeing is what you want to see. Give us a [b]good[/b] reason not to make the change. No insults, or mindless banter (giest), or any comments about crazy people. Just a good, solid reason why [b]not[/b] to let people pick up multiple keys. We're all waiting.