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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:35 am
by wildweasel
Blox wrote:Which is exactly what I'm talking about.
At least you can "draw" out an image, edit it, and so you (can) morph it very slowly into something new.
You can't just "draw" on audio, you can't really tweak it in the same ways, unless you have an entire repository of sounds.
Which means that in contrary to pictures/sprites, audio editing requires a bit more than raw "drawing everything out on the run".
And by the way, not everyone has the talent or equipment for creating your very own sounds. (See the lightsaber example.)
GIMP is a really powerful image editor (Photoshop is trash), and it's free.
I don't hear of any (free) audio editing software that's anything like GIMP in the image world.
Not to mention, as posted around the first (?) page, the music rips I have from Jazz Jackrabbit would fall under the very same rule too. (Yes, it's still selling.)
Here, on the contrary, it's music and not SFX. Though here, talent is the big thing. And far from everyone has that talent. (I don't, that's for sure.)
Of course the music editors are much more dynamic than the SFX editors, since we're talking about track-based music here.
But music is like SFX, a very fragile kind of resource. Do one thing wrong, and the masterpiece turns to a dumpsterpiece.
And as mentioned, only talent (and a sense of rhythm) will help you here, though experience will too, as everywhere. Except that unlike GFX and SFX, copying the style of music is much harder.
I don't have skills in SFX nor music due to the fact that it does not catch me, and due to my lack of talent in the area, beginning is very hard and is sure to take a long, long time.
Time that could've been used for anything else I'm actually more or less good at, like filter mixing in AviSynth, drawing/editing random stuff, and competitive playing.
Creativity takes time, time that most of us don't have enough to spare, due to the fact that we've already picked our array of skills.
[/totallyabigpostofbawwbaww]
Get Wavepad or Audacity (both freely available) and use any of the freely-available sound effects at Freesound.org. Creative Commons is a wonderful thing. Even if you can't record or create your own sounds from scratch, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a base to work from - it just means that, if your base happens to be from a commercial game newer than 2007, you wouldn't be able to put it in the Resources forum.
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:12 am
by printz
I think you can circumvent the (relative) lack of freeware sound editors by programming scripts and algorithms to automatically process or build sounds, according to some mathematical operation (e.g. convolution).
EDIT: also, royalty-free sounds (which I find have more variety than freesound) from sources you might have to pay-per-download must not be posted here. But I think I'm allowed to use them in free wads, as much as I understand what "royalty-free" means (please correct me if else). I found quite some wicked monster roars from another source than freesound.org.
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:17 am
by esselfortium
Blox wrote:Which is exactly what I'm talking about.
At least you can "draw" out an image, edit it, and so you (can) morph it very slowly into something new.
You can't just "draw" on audio, you can't really tweak it in the same ways, unless you have an entire repository of sounds.
Which means that in contrary to pictures/sprites, audio editing requires a bit more than raw "drawing everything out on the run".
I beg to differ. I created the first two doors' sounds in Vaporware Demo entirely from scratch
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:17 am
by wildweasel
printz wrote:EDIT: also, royalty-free sounds from sources you might have to pay-per-download must not be posted here. But I think I'm allowed to use them in free wads, as much as I understand what "royalty-free" means (please correct me if else).
I would say you're pretty much correct there, just under the provision that you've followed the license for said sounds and made appropriate notice of them in your text file's copyrights section.
Freesound's sounds are all licensed under Creative Commons, so the only provisions (usually) are that you give credit to the person who created the sound, and if it's under the Share-Alike version, that you also place your own version of the sound under the same license.
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:27 am
by janiform
What is the harm in posting resources from Eradicator, or In Pursuit of Greed, or Cybermage, or a million other old FPS games with defunct creators that are no longer sold? Certainly no revenue is lost, and legal ramifications are profoundly unlikely. (Personally I would rather see these resources survive through Doom mods than be lost to time, and given the popularity of some of these mods I suspect I'm not the only one). Moreover, I could still use these resources in a project and post it in the Projects forum, so the only effect these rules have is to make resource sharing slightly less efficient, and to create a bizarre division in rules between the Projects forum and the Resources subforum within it. Perhaps these rules will encourage more projects with ripped resources, since that will be the only way such resources can be posted.
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:46 am
by NiGHTMARE
jute wrote:Perhaps these rules will encourage more projects with ripped resources, since that will be the only way such resources can be posted.
Hardly the "only" way. There's also the apparently crazy idea of posting them somewhere other than the ZDoom forums.
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:51 am
by wildweasel
jute wrote:Perhaps these rules will encourage more projects with ripped resources, since that will be the only way such resources can be posted.
At least it'll get people actually doing something creative with said resources instead of just putting them on the forum.
Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:04 pm
by Enjay
Gez wrote:I think the guy who made the sound effects in Star Wars explained that the iconic lightsaber sounds were a mixing between hitting a power line's anchorage cables with a crowbar, highway traffic echoing in a PVC tube, and something else which I forgot. The sandpeople's cries are a donkey's braying accelerated.
I have certainly seen an interview where the discovery of the anchorage cable sound was mentioned, They would, of course, be used for the shorter sounds (light sabres hitting things I guess). The general hum of the sabres were made by Ben Burtt mixing the sounds of motors in old projectors and there was something additional like the sound of a TV interfering with a mic to give the angrier buzz of Vader's sabre IIRC.
And more examples, I'm pretty sure that at least one component of the TIE fighter sound was a tyre on a wet road, Vader's breathing used SCUBA gear and Chewie's noises are, in part, based on those of a bear.
Notwithstanding all of that, there have been a number of projects where people have made Doom sound mods using at least some original sound work. I even did one myself years ago - I used the sound of me hitting a glass mixing bowl with a wooden spoon (filtered a little in GoldWave) to be the sound of a chiming church bell.
Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:10 pm
by TerminusEst13
Xtyfe wrote:I have no experience at all in doing this
Then you probably shouldn't talk about how easy it should or shouldn't be, I think. :T
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:39 pm
by cq75
esselfortium wrote:Blox wrote:Which is exactly what I'm talking about.
At least you can "draw" out an image, edit it, and so you (can) morph it very slowly into something new.
You can't just "draw" on audio, you can't really tweak it in the same ways, unless you have an entire repository of sounds.
Which means that in contrary to pictures/sprites, audio editing requires a bit more than raw "drawing everything out on the run".
I beg to differ. I created the first two doors' sounds in Vaporware Demo entirely from scratch
Really? How did you do that?
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:37 pm
by esselfortium
Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:16 pm
by cq75
hm... I could most likely do that with FL Studio... but don't you need a sound to start out with? Or do you just compose it using square waves, triangle waves, noise, etc...
Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:02 pm
by InsanityBringer
A sound can be generated from "nothing" (using waves and the like). look at
this thing, it doesn't generate very high quality sound effects, but it generates sound effects from "nothing"
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:44 am
by Blox
That's a pretty nice program.
In other words, here's some quick stuff. (You'll need the program for these.)
Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:40 pm
by printz
Easiest to generate is noise, which sounds like steam (if "white") or waterfalls (if pink). Compressed files (open with audio editors as raw sound files) are so entropic/decorrelated that they sound like white noise...