Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

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Xaser
 
 
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Xaser »

[Posting in reply to this announcement]

What prompted the rule change? I remember there being a discussion on this topic a while back, but it was months ago and I haven't seen anything recently. Was there something going on IRC while I was away? Just feel like I've missed something somewhere. :P

I'm still not convinced the "four-year rule" is necessary -- it seems like a weird half-solution to dodge the actual issue: are commercial resources allowed or are they not? Why four years? Everything about it seems completely arbitrary, and I haven't seen anything come up that would prompt it being put into action aside from that the aforementioned resource discussion a while back. IIRC, no rips were ever posted/attempted and the whole "don't rip Rage yet" thing seemed like just a weird phobia to me.

I dunno. I see the need for the restrictions (and agree with the rest of 'em just fine), but the four-year one undermines the whole thing by reeking of "why?" Let the "no unmodified resources" clause cover the bases. That's all that's needed in that regard.
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Sodaholic »

For purposes of clarification, the commercial status of a game can be considered irrelevant, if the developer of said game has specifically granted permission to use its resources in a Doom mod.
Why specifically Doom? I think this should be changed to if the developer said it can be used for modding in general. What's the chances that they're going to specifically mention Doom? What makes it not okay to post them if the devs said "use these resources for any mod you want" without mentioning Doom in particular? Besides, don't the publishers usually have the final say regarding these matters, or am I mistaken?

Lastly, this 4 year rule makes no sense. Also, can one post Rage weapon screenshot rips if they wanted to? It seems like it's almost allowed by the rules, except with the silly 4 year bs in the way.
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Jblade
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Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Jblade »

Unless you guys have received some kind of cease-and-desist or something than this rule does just seem completely arbitrary.
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Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by NiGHTMARE »

Regarding the second rule, "unmodified graphics and sounds from any non-commercial IWAD or game are okay to be uploaded": surely it isn't okay to upload such resources if the documentation file accompanying said IWAD or game state that you can't use them (e.g. the old "Authors may NOT use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse" in the idgames .txt file template)?
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TerminusEst13
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Re: Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by TerminusEst13 »

I disagree vehemently with the inclusion of these rules.
Most of these rules feel completely and totally arbitrary. The last time the issue came up was months ago--and it was (almost) unanimously agreed that we didn't need them.
EDITED graphics and sounds from commercial IWADs may be uploaded, but please mention in the resource posting that they may ONLY be used in mods specifically for the IWAD from which the resource originated
Are you saying we can't use any edits from HeXen/Heretic/Strife sprites in Doom or vice-versa?
Projects uploaded using commercial game resources do not fall under these rules
Oh, no, wait, we can, as long as we don't say we are?

Any unmodified resource from a commercial game may not be uploaded.
This is needlessly punishing people who don't make edits to every single bit of stuff, and ESPECIALLY punishing to aspiring mod-makers who can't draw.
Looking just down the topic list are several unmodified commercial game resources.
I know you say "These rules do not necessarily apply to pre-existing resource posts", but that's going to make the resource forum much, much, much, much less active. Why should we stop using the Shadow Warrior shotgun or graphics from the WRW if we're not going to be able to find other stuff? I don't believe we should request other people to draw everything.
Last edited by TerminusEst13 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Xtyfe »

Personally I think these rules are very fair, if anything I don't see this as strict at all. It could be a lot worse
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printz
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by printz »

When replying to a request, is it okay if instead of directly posting the ripped resource, I only tell them about it and how to extract it?
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by NeuralStunner »

The rule announcement was made in response to incessant bitching over the moderators' use of the "case-by-case basis" system and following their own judgement. Which I might add is still in effect, nothing has actually changed in the process other than having a warning beforehand as to how the situation will be dealt with.

No offense intended toward anyone discussing this. But I expected problems with this from the start, even though it's been an unwritten policy for as long as I can remember. (Don't have a defined rule, people whine that you're being unfair. Define a rule, they still whine that you're being unfair. People are weird.)
Sodaholic
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Sodaholic »

NeuralStunner wrote:Define a rule, they still whine that you're being unfair.
Because it's still a shitty rule, despite the fact that it's now been more clearly defined. I see zero logic in waiting 4 years. Why can't I make a Rage weapon mod if I want to if I only use screenshots to rip it if it's acceptable for games only a couple years back? It's stupid.
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esselfortium
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by esselfortium »

It's about time the resources forum here started respecting authorship rather than encouraging ripoffs. Good on you, wildweasel.
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printz
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by printz »

Sodaholic wrote:Why can't I make a Rage weapon mod if I want to if I only use screenshots to rip it if it's acceptable for games only a couple years back? It's stupid.
Yes, you can. And you can post a project thread about it. But you're not allowed to share that "resource" on this forum.
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by chronoteeth »

In the long run on the whole rule about this, one thing's certain: no one's really gonna care much about it. Other forums are gonna have ripfests, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but they'll be there. The developers of these games dont actively hunt the forums for such things, and lord if they did they'd put up a cease and desist order for the mod, mod goes down, mod's gone, but besides all that? This is one of the silliest rules because it secretly subverts "quality control". Now if it were because of that, then that'd make sense, but it isn't. Its a trivial thing that only stops some things being posted here, but not elsewhere, and frankly it aint gonna stop people from making ripfests anyways.

Its just one of those things thats just dumb, cause frankly a lot of people, dev and modder, just dont hunt, focus, or care about these minor things. Besides it wasn't enforced in the past when ripfests were much more prevailent, now that they aren't as high it just seems kinda stupid to put up a sudden "oh you cant do this". Its a rule, Ill follow it and so will a lot of other people, because they have to. That dont mean its bs on all fronts.

And the 4 year thing is trivial and out of the blue for it too.
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by NeuralStunner »

Sodaholic wrote:Because it's still a shitty rule, despite the fact that it's now been more clearly defined.
Which would you rather: Prohibit all commercial resources and alienate at least 99% of the community? Or say "eh what the hell, go ahead and post IWads if you want", and have Randy lose his site?

Companies typically aren't going to start a witch hunt until they decide they're losing sales. Which generally only happens if you either try to sell their property, or give it away in its entirety.

I recall Capcom praising Cutty for MM8BDM, and Raven Software giving a cheer at Hexen: EoC despite it using their IP...


I'm neither defending nor condemning ripping. I'm simply pointing out that peopel are going to bitch no matter what you do. :?
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Captain Awesome »

I can't even really understand these rules, myself. From what I understand this really doesn't change this forum except we can't post resources from Doom-related games nor from games newer than four years? So.... nothing changed?
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Re: ATTN: Stricter rules re: commerical game resources.

Post by Xtyfe »

To those who think the 4 year thing is silly, think of it this way: At what point after the release of a game does that game start to lose players to other newer games? 4-5 years is the general life span of a game before it gets swept away and becomes less relevant. Are the game developers still making money from it? Sure, but not near what they were making when it was first released. What about after that point? Do you think that they will care much about ripping from an old game that is barely making them money anymore? It seems silly, but some still do... but some are too busy making their next shitty cash cow to worry about a small community of players modding for an almost two decade old game.

I think that's where we stand for now.

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