GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

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Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
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GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by Graf Zahl »

Now that the survey is closed and I had time to crunch the available numbers, here's some more detailed results than usual.

The following breakdown was made with 15400 reports overall:

First the hardware breakdown:

43.3% are using an NVidia high end card, meaning a Geforce GTX 970 or better.
7.2% use a comparable AMD card
2.8% use an oder generation high end NVidia card, meaning Geforce GTX 670 or better
1.8% use an Apple M1/M2
------------------------------
55.1% use modern hardware with good or excellent performance.

8.7% use mid range hardware that may not have sufficient performance for using postprocessing effects
27.5% use low end hardware that nomially supports Vulkan - these are mostly older laptops.
------------------------------

8.7% uses non-Vulkan capable hardware - this was roughly at 10% most of the time during my initial reports but i made a mistake there and erroneously excluded some entry level Geforces from Vulkan that actually do support it. With this being corrected, non-Vulkan capable hardware dropped significantly below 10%.

Now the operation system breakdown:

82.1% use Windows 10 or Windows 11
3.8% use Windows 7 or Windows 8.
4 users (not percent!) used Windows on ARM, one of thse in a VM on a Mac.

1.6% use a Mac with Intel CPU
1.8% use a Mac with ARM CPU

10.5% use Linux


So, what does this all mean?
First, we have seen a very steep drop in use of non-Vulkan capable hardware. This was around 15% last year, so this segment shed roughly 40% of its user base - but the interesting thing here that it is mostly the higher end, i.e. Geforce GTX 550 and up, that are responsible for the drop. This segment of the user base has virtually evaporated by now, leaving mostly Intel powered systems. NVidia now stands at less than 10% of non-Vulkan capable hardware, and only half of this features some decent performance.

With this and the performance characteristics of the remaining hardware considered the future of OpenGL support needs some serious reconsideration.95% of this hardware is better served by the GLES backend with its low end specific optimizations.
This situation will be addressed by reworking the startup code to prefer GLES and Vulkan and demote the full GL backend to a fallback option, so that it can still be used in case one of the others does not work. In general, though, it should be clear that OpenGL's days are numbered.

More importantly, though, the situation on macOS now is that the Intel segment is shrinking while the ARM segment is disproportionately growing. On M1, however, OpenGL is close to useless - and performance tests on Intel based Macs generally show that Vulkan/MoltenVK tends to have roughly the same performance as OpenGL. Furthermore, the number of Mac users on non-Metal capable hardware is so low (low double digits, less than 0.1% of the total user base) that this does not warrant keeping support alive. As such, the next GZDoom release will drop OpenGL support on macOS and from now on only provide the Vulkan/MoltenVK backend using the native Metal API.

Windows 7 is also dropping rapidly. This has no immediate consequences, but expect regressions to occur in cases where we have to consider better support on modern OSs that do not filter back well.
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KynikossDragonn
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Re: GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by KynikossDragonn »

Core OpenGL as a fallback option would be great for me since Intel's Vulkan under Linux is once again falling victim to graphical corruption inside of GZDoom but OpenGL with INTEL_DEBUG=reemit set in the environment will avoid said corruption.

I guess I'll have to see if the corruption goes away next time the Mesa package is updated on Void Linux. (Or maybe by some bizarre stroke of luck someone with the exact model of NUC I'm using can open up bugs with Mesa and do all the extraneous testing involved in that, I can't presently do it because this is a desktop system and I don't want to wrestle trying experimental patches when this is the only working desktop I have)
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Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
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Re: GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by Graf Zahl »

Your experience is the reason why we cannot discontinue OpenGL yet. Issues with Vulkan are still far too widespread on some hardware. What kind of GPU do you have?
But that's really the only future I see for it - The real GL hardware still in use is far too weak to handle GZDoom's main shader well, the 3 most common GPUs in the GL segment are Intel HD2500, HD4000 and HD4600, plus their unnamed even lower end companions.
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KynikossDragonn
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Re: GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by KynikossDragonn »

This NUC is using the Intel Iris Pro 580. I SPECIFICALLY went with this generation primarily because I heard nothing but trouble with Intel Graphics past this generation. It's been serving me well, not everything requires INTEL_DEBUG=reemit, and even with it set there's not really much performance loss from what I've tested. The Vulkan driver doesn't seem to have debug flags like the OpenGL driver does, so when that suffers corruption I have no choice but to put up with it, or switch renderers if I'm able to.

It's rather amusing also this benchmarked very poorly under Windows 10, but on Linux I've had nothing but smooth sailing, though Unity Engine and such prove to be problematic as always. (probably because those engines are notoriously unoptimized even on heavy hitter discrete cards)
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Graf Zahl
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Re: GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by Graf Zahl »

Performance wise that's approximately comparable to a Geforce GTX550. More than enough for playing even demanding maps in GZDoom, just don't think about shadowmaps and SSAO.
I find it odd that the drivers are still shit, though.
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KynikossDragonn
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Re: GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by KynikossDragonn »

Sometimes Mesa pushes out a update that has rather unfortunate regressions. Nothing I can really do about it except ride the storm since they expect people that file bug reports to have a entire thing setup to test patches, including kernel level patches. (the so called drm-tip) If I had a redundant identical NUC as I have now I wouldn't mind participating in that seriously, but I can't afford to break my system any more than it occasionally breaks.

Hell, libX11 had a recent update and Void Linux rolled it back because of a nasty regression that causes Godot Engine and vkQuake to crash, and Steam to spam dozens of XLib errors.
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Ihavequestions
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Re: GZDoom 4.9.0 survey - the final rundown

Post by Ihavequestions »

Graf Zahl wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:37 amYour experience is the reason why we cannot discontinue OpenGL yet. Issues with Vulkan are still far too widespread on some hardware. What kind of GPU do you have?
But that's really the only future I see for it - The real GL hardware still in use is far too weak to handle GZDoom's main shader well, the 3 most common GPUs in the GL segment are Intel HD2500, HD4000 and HD4600, plus their unnamed even lower end companions.
Well, I have a powerful gaming laptop with an RTX 3080 (comparable to a desktop 3070), and it is currently getting massively worse performance on Vulkan compared to OpenGL using the exact same settings, playing the exact same area of a map.

There are certain areas in specific maps that get my system down to less than 20 fps on Vulkan where I get 80 fps on OpenGL. I don't remember having had such issues earlier, so that might be just a driver issue, indeed, but it's those things that make it necessary to keep OpenGL as an option.

EDIT: The issue seems to have been related to the "Vulkan/OpenGL present method" setting in the NVidia Control Panel. Setting it to "Auto" or "Prefer native" fixes it. The resulting performance is still a few percent worse than with OpenGL, though.

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