Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Moderator: GZDoom Developers

User avatar
chunks
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 12:58 pm
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Modern GZDoom)
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by chunks »

or Default Settings pt.2: Electric BoogaWho?

I've been watching a fair amount of DOOM streams on Twitch lately, and I've noticed that you can sometimes discover a streamers real name if they're using GZDoom.
It seems like a lot of people use their actual real name for their Windows user account.
In GZDoom "Detailed save messages" is turned ON by default. What this does is display the full path of the save, every time you save. Additionally, Save/Load confirmation is also ON by default, which gives anyone who might be watching ample time to look at said path.
During the course of my research, virtually everyone I encountered that was using GZDoom on a Windows PC had it installed somewhere within their Windows user directory, and had left DSM on.
So, for example, every time they save (which for some people is comically often) a message would display: Game Saved. (C:/Users/REALNAME/Games/GZDoom/etc/)
Now I know what some of you are saying: "OP, you handsome devil, what's the big deal? Who cares if you know their name?"
Well several of them seemed to care quite a bit (ESPECIALLY the VTubers). But don't take my word for it, go watch someone streaming with GZDoom and see if you can snipe their name, then in chat be like "Hey NAME, how's the stream"
I won't get into it here, but saying exactly this has gotten me into a fair amount of trouble with some streamers. I've been told there are concerns with doxxing and the like.
Of course this isn't the case for everyone. Some people don't give a crap, some people know better than to name their Windows user account after their real name, or to configure their client before streaming.
Netizen that I am, I've done my best to help people turn this setting off, but this is another problem: it's hidden waaaayyy deep in the options. ..and that makes sense, it's not something you need to turn off and on on a regular basis. But if you're not very technically literate (which, in my limited experience, seems to be the case most often), or if English isn't your first language (also fairly common) following Twitch chat's instructions on how to configure your Doom client is less than ideal.
So I have a proposal:
Detailed save messages: OFF by default
I mean, who really needs such a detailed save message anyway? The save folder's right there in the GZDoom folder, it ain't hidden in some appdata directory or nothin. Heck most people I ran into didn't even realize these messages was even there (though again my N=~20).
Note: I am in no way advocating for the removal of the Detailed save messages option. It's a fine option and I enjoy the option of having it an option. Options are good. I know all the options and how to turn them all off and on and everything between. Thank you.
Anyway that's it. Stay safe out there, streamers <3
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26430
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Enjay »

Personally, I have no objections to the suggestion at all (indeed, I usually switch off the long messages simply because they look untidy to me).

However, I also feel that, at some point, we need to stop wiping people's backsides for them. vTuber, you wanna stream your playing? Well, make sure that you're happy with the information that you are sharing on screen by doing so. Secure your own system to the standards that you want. They displayed their name, and don't like that people now know their name? That's on them.

As it happens, my computer account is not my real name (it's the same as my name on here) but my real name is also reasonably public and a few seconds of googling could find it for anyone who really had a burning desire to find it. :shrug: Even though I use a pseudonym online (which was actually from a RL nickname anyway) I don't really get the continuing online paranoia and obsession with them; especially as so many people's real names are out there anyway: Facebook, LinkedIn, company profiles and websites, news articles, searchable public records... Perhaps, historically, they served a purpose (or was it always just kewl kiddies hiding behind a nick?) but anyone who really wants to know a name, probably knows it already. I once did a simple exercise with a bunch of young people (most of them around 12 years old). First, I asked them to google their own (real) name. After doing that, just under half of them were able to find a picture of themself. Then I told them to add one bit of information about themself to the search (a hobby, a club, the town they live in, the school they went to - their choice). After that, 95% of them had found a pic of themselves. I realise that is kind of the reverse - they searched by their name, but my point is that, unknown to most of them, their name was already "out there" and even associated with a photo of them.

Like I said though, the suggestion itself doesn't bother me in any way - but equally, it's not my call.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48375
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Graf Zahl »

Switching the default is ok, any more work sounds unnecessary.
User avatar
Rachael
Admin
Posts: 13107
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:31 pm
Preferred Pronouns: She/Her

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Rachael »

Considering we literally live in the age of streaming, I believe that GZDoom revealing as little information as possible about a user is a prudent call. Let the users themselves disclose that information if they so desire. I don't see any harm in stripping off the path for the save file confirmation, either. In fact when I ask people to post their .ini files I often remind them to check for personal information and remove it, for this very reason.

This "danger" so to speak exists on Mac and Linux too, where home folders are named similarly to their Windows counterparts.
User avatar
Nash
 
 
Posts: 17326
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:07 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Nash »

I'm in agreement of changing the default to not reveal the full path. Especially important for casual streamers who don't know the inner workings of GZDoom and don't realize that it's a change-able option.
User avatar
m8f
 
 
Posts: 1422
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:15 am
Location: Siberia (UTC+7)

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by m8f »

Screenshot messages also show the full path.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48375
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Graf Zahl »

They depend on the same CVAR.

It's a bit ironic that we come full circle here, considering it was changed so that people have it easier to find their files...
User avatar
Rachael
Admin
Posts: 13107
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:31 pm
Preferred Pronouns: She/Her

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Rachael »

In my test, save/load confirmation did not reveal the path of the save game, so I am going to leave that alone.
User avatar
Rachael
Admin
Posts: 13107
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:31 pm
Preferred Pronouns: She/Her

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Rachael »

Graf Zahl wrote:It's a bit ironic that we come full circle here, considering it was changed so that people have it easier to find their files...
Maybe it'd be better if instead of having defaults, in this particular instance the game just asks at first startup?
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48375
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Graf Zahl »

If you run in default mode on Windows, i.e. as a portable install, you only get a relative path, but if you save to your use directory you will get the full path.
User avatar
Rachael
Admin
Posts: 13107
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:31 pm
Preferred Pronouns: She/Her

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Rachael »

I set the default then, but I cannot for the life of me get it to show the info I need to "expose" myself, per se. I even set the volume that I run GZDoom from to readonly.

If there's more work that needs to be done, I cannot trace it down.

It really does seem like setting longsavemessages to false is enough to tackle this problem.
User avatar
chunks
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 12:58 pm
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Modern GZDoom)
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by chunks »

Enjay wrote:However, I also feel that, at some point, we need to stop wiping people's backsides for them.
I wholly agree with the classic 'learn to configure your client before going online'... but also, a lot of these people probably are just like "hey I wanna play doom, what's the best way to do that these days? GZDoom? Cool!" and for the most part they likely don't even look at the options menu, or if they do they almost certainly don't enable the full options menu and wade through every single option. They just wanna play Doom, like right now. and that's fine, I think. I can only recall one other modern game, Inscryption, that shows raw file paths just out in the open like that, and Inscryption kinda gives you a lil heads up before doing so.
Furthermore, I believe the paranoia and obsession with concealing the real identity of streamers is entirely warranted. It doesn't take much googling to find instances of streamers/vtubers/TikTok cosplayers/etc being forced to stop doing what they enjoy because of doxxing/stalking. Here's an example from like a week ago.
So while a rugged internet savvy gentlemen like myself may not have much to worry about, these are disturbingly real and justified concerns for others (ie young women).
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26430
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Enjay »

Absolutely, I get all that and I certainly have no problem with this particular simple change (which means the default is now my personal preference anyway). The irony that Graf pointed out is indeed amusing though.

As a general rule, I feel that people need to be much more aware of risks they are exposing themselves to online - whether they be actual risks or simply making more about themself public than they had intended to (regardless of whether this poses any actual tangible risk or not). And they can't always rely on others doing it for them.

Basically, people need to be a bit more savvy about what they do online generally. There's always some nasty actor out there waiting to take advantage - from amateur nasty-for-the-sake-of-it troll to state-sponsored interference and everything between. But I don't think anyone here is actually disputing that either.
Guest

Re: Detailed save messages: a safety concern for streamers?

Post by Guest »

Since many carry the same congig from the previous GZDoom version, would it be worth to rename the "longsavemessages" to "fullpathsavemessages" (or so) and then let it be false by default? Then it'd be 100%-off from everybody after the next release.

Return to “Closed Feature Suggestions [GZDoom]”