True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Remember, just because you request it, that doesn't mean you'll get it.

Moderator: GZDoom Developers

User avatar
StrikerMan780
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:15 pm
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by StrikerMan780 »

I'd like to know how feasible it would be to add support for 640x480 true-color PNGs for the Hexen startup type, and *maybe* PNGs of the appropriate sizes for notch/netnotch as well. Reason I ask, is I want to make a nice startup screen for one of my mods, that simply doesn't look presentable with only 16 colors.
User avatar
Kinsie
Posts: 7352
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:22 am
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: MAP33

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Kinsie »

I wanna say that this has been bought up in the past, but that it's not a trivial addition (which is why it hasn't happened yet).

Nothing wrong with bringing it up again, though. It'd be a very welcome addition, and it would have saved a lot of swearing on my part when I was messing around with this stuff.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48519
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Graf Zahl »

The main reason nothing has happened yet is because the startup code is not a clean part of the actual engine but a Windows-only add-on that consists of highly system-dependent code.
Unless someone ports this to Mac and Linux (which I cannot do myself because I do not own such systems) I feel no motivation to change it.
User avatar
StrikerMan780
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:15 pm
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by StrikerMan780 »

Would moving the drawing of Heretic/Hexen/Strife load screens and ENDOOM screens into the engine, where they'd be drawn with the user's selected renderer be the best route in this case?
User avatar
Kinsie
Posts: 7352
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:22 am
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: MAP33

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Kinsie »

StrikerMan780 wrote:Would moving the drawing of Heretic/Hexen/Strife load screens and ENDOOM screens into the engine, where they'd be drawn with the user's selected renderer be the best route in this case?
I believe those screens are shown while the engine is initializing and such, which would make this unfeasible unless you showed these screens after loading the game as like an artificial load screen... which would kill the point.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48519
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Graf Zahl »

Correct. But the main issue with those screens is that the code to handle them has hard Windows dependencies instead of trying to set up a system independent context in which to draw. Someone with some platform experience will have to port it to Max and Linux.
User avatar
ibm5155
Posts: 1268
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:24 pm

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by ibm5155 »

StrikerMan780 wrote:I'd like to know how feasible it would be to add support for 640x480 true-color PNGs for the Hexen startup type, and *maybe* PNGs of the appropriate sizes for notch/netnotch as well. Reason I ask, is I want to make a nice startup screen for one of my mods, that simply doesn't look presentable with only 16 colors.
It's not that 16 colors are too bad, but the Hexen Startup Palette colors are quite bad for any kind of startup picture
User avatar
StrikerMan780
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:15 pm
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by StrikerMan780 »

ibm5155 wrote:
StrikerMan780 wrote:I'd like to know how feasible it would be to add support for 640x480 true-color PNGs for the Hexen startup type, and *maybe* PNGs of the appropriate sizes for notch/netnotch as well. Reason I ask, is I want to make a nice startup screen for one of my mods, that simply doesn't look presentable with only 16 colors.
It's not that 16 colors are too bad, but the Hexen Startup Palette colors are quite bad for any kind of startup picture
Incorrect. 16 colors aren't enough for an image that only looks good with far more.

Anyhow, shame G/QZDoom doesn't make use of SDL, I'd be able to make a functional replacement fairly easily.
Last edited by Blue Shadow on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Enable BBCode
User avatar
ibm5155
Posts: 1268
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:24 pm

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by ibm5155 »

There's no need for SDL for that kind of feature.
And, even not being many colors, those small amount of colors at least can do some good art since the range of the colors is 16bits or something near
Spoiler:
User avatar
wildweasel
Moderator Team Lead
Posts: 21582
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:33 pm
Preferred Pronouns: He/Him
Operating System Version (Optional): Win10 22H2, Win11 22H2, macOS 11.7
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by wildweasel »

ibm5155 wrote:There's no need for SDL for that kind of feature.
Well, considering the startup window code still needs to be ported to all the other OSes...
User avatar
Rachael
Admin
Posts: 13205
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:31 pm
Preferred Pronouns: She/Her

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Rachael »

wildweasel wrote:Well, considering the startup window code still needs to be ported to all the other OSes...
This is true, however, with GZDoom, SDL is not in use whatsoever on Mac and Windows.

Windows just uses the default GDI and is programmed using WinForms, and the Mac OS version uses Cocoa.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48519
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Graf Zahl »

Since I had been investing some work here over the last few days, let's just state that with the current code not much can be done here.
Until yesterday the Hexen startup was limited to 16 colors - now it is limited to 256 colors but still uses a palette. So getting more out of this a far more substantial rewrite will be needed-
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26441
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Enjay »

It's much easier to get a nice looking image from 256 colours than it is from 16. So thank you for this increase even if full true colour PNGs can't be done at the moment.

Are the rules for the lump formats still basically the same except for the 16 to 256 colour change?
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Posts: 48519
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Graf Zahl »

I only have changed the internal handling. You cannot use different formats so far. Before new formats can be used it needs to handle true color.
The point here is to make the code that creates the graphical start screens platform independent, and 4 bit surfaces had to go for that - this was a textbook pointless optimization. All it did was restrict the future options.
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26441
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: True-Color PNG support for Hexen Startup

Post by Enjay »

OK, so the STARTUP image is still its own custom format, but now supports 256 colours, the palette is contained in that image, and rhe notches are still raw images that use the palette from the STARTUP image?

Return to “Feature Suggestions [GZDoom]”