ZDoom

So I've wanted to see what people think about this on average so here it goes:
1. Is the Archvile worse than the Revenant?
2. If the Revenant could resurrect things like the Archvile but his homing rockets were slightly slower, did less damage and he had the health of a Demon (Pinky) but spawned 1-3 Wraiths (http://realm667.com/index.php/en/beasti ... 430-wraith) upon Death that could potentially resurrect the Revenant be worse than an Archvile?
3. Would the new revenant be worse than an archvile if there was a 35% chance that upon an Imp being resurrected that it would turn into one of these new revenants.

1. Define worse. In terms of threat to the player, I'd say the archvile is way more threatening, though a lot depends on the environment. In case of short corridors with plenty of turns or a series of pillars in an open area it's quite easy to dodge the archvile, though you'd probably want the area clear of other monsters.
2. More annoying possibly, but likely not more threatening unless you are somewhat short on ammo. Though I guess I'd have to play to get a real opinion.
3. I imagine I'd equally want to avoid letting either an archvile or a revenant near a graveyard of imps. Aside from that, the above point applies. If there was a scene where I had to fight an archvile and a revenant in an area full of imp bodies, I'd go for the archvile first, because archviles cannot be resurrected, and among the chaos it's probably best to take out the one that can hurt me through other enemies as opposed to projectiles.

In every revenant vs archvile fight I've seen when playing Doom, the latter always rose victorious.

Never have I seen a archvile lose to one of those.

A bit situational. Like already mentioned, terrain is a big part in that matter. Maps like Hunted from Plutonia make archviles a lot easier to kill due the many corners where you can get out of their vision.
Revenants are really, really annoying because of their homing rockets. They are relatively easy to kill, though. Only take to shots with the SSG, and you can perfectly chainsaw them, since they will pull off a melee-strike if you are close enough.

enderkevin13 wrote:In every revenant vs archvile fight I've seen when playing Doom, the latter always rose victorious.

You do realise that absolutely nothing retaliates against an Archvile, right? That tends to shift the odds in the Archvile's favour just a tad.

edward850 wrote:

enderkevin13 wrote:In every revenant vs archvile fight I've seen when playing Doom, the latter always rose victorious.

You do realise that absolutely nothing retaliates against an Archvile, right? That tends to shift the odds in the Archvile's favour just a tad.

Exactly.

Not exactly at all. See the point was the Revenant never gets involved in the fight at all. Your entire post is moot from the start.

edward850 wrote:Not exactly at all. See the point was the Revenant never gets involved in the fight at all. Your entire post is moot from the start.

That's the point, the revenant doesn't give a fuck.

They're both extremely fun monsters to fight and both definitely have their uses, though revenants are just a little more versatile

1. Archie is worse than Revenant but however Revenants makes an...

Spoiler:

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2. I don't see a point of bringing Wraiths to the subject, we're talking about classic doom isn't? So why pull monsters that isn't the originals from the game?

3. Dunno, it seems that it could turn into a clusterfuck if you go play some frenzy-action wad like Speed of Doom.

2. It sounded to me like OP was trying to design a new monster and wanted to hear some opinions to finetune the difficulty of it.

Revenants are weaker and less dangerous. You can perfectly well survive in a wide arena with no cover and a hundred revenants, make it a wide area with no cover and a hundred arch-viles and you're toast.

Gez wrote:Revenants are weaker and less dangerous. You can perfectly well survive in a wide arena with no cover and a hundred revenants

As long as you don't stop moving. You can outrun the trackers but heaven help you if you get stuck.

Gez wrote:make it a wide area with no cover and a hundred arch-viles and you're toast.

Then they'll bury you in a lunch box.

In general, the Archvile is more dangerous.

I summoned a friendly archvile at the start of map12 and shot it ~1.3 times* with the shotgun. It killed 2 revenants and died to a third that promptly died to the first revenant that the archvile had raised.

Also, the archvile is much more dangerous to a player than it ought to be for its attack alone, simply because its attack blinds you.

So to answer question 2 by reading the DECORATE for the wraith, I would say not unless you had a bunch of revenant corpses nearby or something!

(That said, if this revenant could be raised by its own wraiths, such that you might very quickly end up with one new revenant and 2 wraiths after an initial victory...)


*Additional point in favour of archviles: at speed 15 compared to the revenant's speed 10, they're much harder to hit while moving.

EDIT: Come to think of it, you only ever have a 10-tic window during an archvile's attack where none of the following is happening:
1. Most of your screen is being taken up by the flame.
2. Another monster has just appeared and is about to attack you.
3. You are not in LOS with the archvile and cannot attack it except with some shitty rocket splash damage (but see point 4).
4. The monster is jumping up to 15 DUs to the left or right every 2 tics.
5. You are being launched into the air while your vision is covered in a thick red haze.

It is simply vastly more aggravating to target an archvile than nearly anything else.