[Not a bug] Sector type 75

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:41 pm

Hi Randy (and everyone else),

I just noticed that a sector with type 75 (-10/20% health and end level when health <= 10%) turns of God (IDDQD) mode automatically when you're in it. Is that intentional? It sure seems a bit counterintuitive to me...

Post by **randi** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:02 pm

Yes, because it's the only way to end E1M8.

Cyb · Post by **Cyb** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:29 pm

you could make a big message pop up on screen that says "TURN OFF GODMODE YOU BASTARD" but well... heh

Post by **Enjay** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:30 pm

It's always been that way, even in doom.exe (presumably for the reason Randy gave).

Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.

Ultraviolet · Post by **Ultraviolet** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:17 pm

Enjay wrote:It's always been that way, even in doom.exe (presumably for the reason Randy gave).

Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.

Foresight, I'd say... the guys at ID probably thought that nobody would get good enough that they could take out all those monsters in the dark, whether by skill or by having enough health/ammo after taking out the two barons. Then, some guy said "Hey, uh, that doesn't look so hard..." So some cruel bastard goes "Pssh, I'll show you!"

They didn't make the invulnerability artifact's effects susceptible to damage in that sector type because you just aren't supposed to have it at that time.

Anybody check to see if this sector type 75 behaves the same throughout all early Doom versions?

I remember being so disappointed, in such a state of despair every time I'd load a game and try to kill all the monsters in that area, but would die every time... crying out to the heavens "Why am I just not good enough?"

EDIT: Whoa, IDBEHOLDV doesn't protect you? So like, the invulnerability provided by the artifact and the invulnerability provided by the cheat are actually DIFFERENT? So uh, the cheat and the artifact actually don't use the same function or whatever to provide invulnerability? Now THAT is foresight... didn't see that coming. Or uh, maybe it's just a bug?

Post by **Enjay** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:32 pm

Ultraviolet wrote:EDIT: Whoa, IDBEHOLDV doesn't protect you? So like, the invulnerability provided by the artifact and the invulnerability provided by the cheat are actually DIFFERENT?

Are you basing that on trying it, or what I said? - which was...

Enjay wrote:Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item... or by typing idbeholdv... will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off.

ie The item and cheat do the same thing - protect you from the sector damage for as long as the powerup is in effect. This is the same for both doom.exe and Zdoom.exe (just tried).

As far as earlier versions of doom go, I think most of the time they have worked like the above, but I do have a nagging feeling that perhaps at some point one version my have done somthing slightly different, but I really don't know.

SargeBaldy · Post by **SargeBaldy** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:40 pm

Enjay wrote: Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.

heh, i had shareware for so many years before i registered i kind of assumed everyone knew that =P

MartinHowe · Post by **MartinHowe** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:36 pm

Enjay wrote:It's always been that way, even in doom.exe (presumably for the reason Randy gave).

Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.

This is the one thing I REALLY liked about MBF - Lee had several bugfixes that could be optionally turned on and off -- including a fix for "God mode isn't absolute".

I mean after all, God mode should indeed BE absolute; it should mean what it says: telefragging, explicit "override god mode" sectors, PDamageMobj(10000) and such should NOT be able to kill you. In fact, in God mode, properly implemented, NOTHING should be able to kill you!

Ultraviolet · Post by **Ultraviolet** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:45 pm

I read too fast, I think.

Enjay wrote:...granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv...

It was that "not normally blah blah blah by typing" part. I skimmed, thought the "not" was in effect where it wasn't.

Nanami · Post by **Nanami** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:46 am

MartinHowe wrote:This is the one thing I REALLY liked about MBF - Lee had several bugfixes I mean after all, God mode should indeed BE absolute; it should mean what it says: telefragging, explicit "override god mode" sectors, PDamageMobj(10000) and such should NOT be able to kill you. In fact, in God mode, properly implemented, NOTHING should be able to kill you!

Although that might sound good in some cases, there's points in a game where you're supposed to die. If you end up in the last room in E1M8 I'd be annoied if I found out after about 10 minutes of running around in that dark room I had to turn off god mode.

There's also key areas in some maps that are meant to kill you instantly, like lava for example, and you'd either have to IDCLIP out or turn off god mode, which is annoying.

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:48 am

MartinHowe wrote:
Enjay wrote:It's always been that way, even in doom.exe (presumably for the reason Randy gave).

Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.
This is the one thing I REALLY liked about MBF - Lee had several bugfixes that could be optionally turned on and off -- including a fix for "God mode isn't absolute".

I mean after all, God mode should indeed BE absolute; it should mean what it says: telefragging, explicit "override god mode" sectors, PDamageMobj(10000) and such should NOT be able to kill you. In fact, in God mode, properly implemented, NOTHING should be able to kill you!

I agree with that, although I also agree that not being able to finish E1 properly until you turn of God mode would be frustrating. The easiest solution would probably be that sector type 75 only turns of God mode in E1M8; of course, hardcoded stuff is not really elegant, but then, we've already got sector tag 666, too, so there. :)

Post by **Kate** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:28 pm

The only reason telefragging still kills you is so that you don't end up getting stuck inside whatever teleported into you.

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:25 pm

SargeBaldy wrote:
Enjay wrote: Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.
heh, i had shareware for so many years before i registered i kind of assumed everyone knew that =P

Um... But there WAS no invulnerability sphere in the shareware version...... (Nor did using idbeholdv work, AFAIK)

arcticwolf · Post by **arcticwolf** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:10 pm

HotWax wrote:
SargeBaldy wrote:
Enjay wrote: Interestingly - in Doom and Zdoom, invulnerability granted by the invulnerability item (not normally available in Ep1) or by typing idbeholdv (the cheat for the invulnerability powerup) will protect you from that sector type until the powerup wears off. The rad suit will not.
heh, i had shareware for so many years before i registered i kind of assumed everyone knew that =P
Um... But there WAS no invulnerability sphere in the shareware version...... (Nor did using idbeholdv work, AFAIK)

IIRC, idbeholdv *did* work. I may be wrong, though, so don't rely on it. :)

Post by **Enjay** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:17 pm

arcticwolf wrote:IIRC, idbeholdv *did* work. I may be wrong, though, so don't rely on it.

Yes it did. The shareware and the full game use the same exe. There are no specific resouces reuired for the idbeholdv cheat (unlike the item - which needs sprites), and I don't suppose Id ever considered disabling it in the SW version because it does work.