Reallowing the start up log to be viewable during load-up? [4.12+]

[Lord Misfit]

With 4.12.0+ being out now I noticed immediately with the new UI loadup that there's no means to see the log readout during engine loadup, meaning you have to either get an error for it to stop and suddenly show the log, or wait for load up to look through the console (and if something is happening on a TITLEMAP or such that causes things to print to the console, it messes in real time with the ability to read through the console for those possible warning messages you missed on load up until you can start a new game or get to some point where console text isn't printing actively). I preferred the old means to track any warnings in real time load up, and was wondering if there was actually a way to currently re-enable seeing them, or if that can be requested as a feature to add onto the new UI in the near future?

That, and the almost entirely blank screen with just the tiny loading bar... it feels discomfortingly barren all of a sudden, though that's also just a personal feeling on the matter. >.>;

[Rachael]

The previous RTF console was completely removed, and for now there does not exist an option to have the graphical console that appears when a fatal error occurs to appear at startup.

However, you can run gzdoom through conhost.exe and append the -stdout argument to get a console, ex:

Code: Select all

conhost.exe gzdoom.exe <args> -stdout

As of now only conhost.exe seems to work - terminal alternatives such as Windows Terminal or mintty or pterm will not work.

If you don't want the startup screen you can even add "-nostartup" after the "-stdout".

[MartinHowe]

Windows XP Lives! and the Devs will fight anyone who says otherwise

Seriously, though, wow I thought it was just a property of the mod or a maybe some weird bug therein when I saw this yesterday.

So why was this done, if I may ask?

And also, what does "RTF" mean, please?

[Rachael]

Rich-Text Format

[MartinHowe]

Rich-Text Format

Thanks ( not used to seeing that abbreviation outside the context of Windows text editors ) If I may ask, why was this done? Or is it a step to restoring a console but that is done a different way?

[Rachael]

If I may ask, why was this done?

I'd have to ask the person who did it.

[dpJudas]

I removed the startup console specifically to annoy users. It is what I do, after all.

[Professor Hastig]

The previous RTF console was completely removed, and for now there does not exist an option to have the graphical console that appears when a fatal error occurs to appear at startup.

However, you can run gzdoom through conhost.exe and append the -stdout argument to get a console, ex:

Code: Select all

conhost.exe gzdoom.exe <args> -stdout

As of now only conhost.exe seems to work - terminal alternatives such as Windows Terminal or mintty or pterm will not work.

If you don't want the startup screen you can even add "-nostartup" after the "-stdout".

You don't need conhost.
If you run 'gzdoom -stdout' from any terminal it will output there, and if you run this from the GUI it will open a new console window.

[MartinHowe]

I removed the startup console specifically to annoy users. It is what I do, after all.

Sadly, the above is one of those cases where typing on a screen loses context; is this a lighthearted joke, an attempt at sarcasm, or something else?

I did ask politely why it was removed, so I hope it's not too much to ask for a serious explanation, if possible; I mean, it is to enable some new functionality further down the line, was it too time-consuming to support, etc?

Also I notice it says widgets and customisable in the intro for this version. So if that's what this is about, I guess it's to enable a new feature at the expense of an old one? I really hope it's not gone for good; I am utterly fed up with programs hiding us from the guts of things, for example chkdsk /v no longer works when checking the C drive, you get this childish baby-talk about scanning and repairing instead.

So please, a bit of context? Thanks.

[dpJudas]

Here's the serious explanation:

I rewrote the win32 startup code in vkdoom to align better with what I personally consider the right way for a game to boot up. Same way as how 99% of all other games have been doing it for the last 20 years: in a single window, showing any loading progress screen there with the same code that drives the rest of the game. The new code replaced the old code and can therefore not be reactivated.

As for why GZDoom now has it? You'd have to ask those that imported it, but if I'm to guess I'd say it was because the new startup dialog code was cross platform, removing a long lasting pain point that the other platforms had their own implementations of the startup dialogs. Now Windows, Linux and macOS all use the same code and any future features added this is shows up everywhere.

[MartinHowe]

Thanks, I can see that now.

I rewrote the win32 startup code in vkdoom to align better with what I personally consider the right way for a game to boot up. Same way as how 99% of all other games have been doing it for the last 20 years: in a single window, showing any loading progress screen there with the same code that drives the rest of the game. The new code replaced the old code and can therefore not be reactivated.

TBH, I had no idea that the RTF console was not done that way; when the old monochrome console in an OS default terminal window disappeared ages ago, I thought the new coloured text console in the main window was done that way, using the same underlying code as in HUDMessage() or whatever; I'm guessing it was simply overlaid on the main window, which would indeed complicate things.

So once this widget thing (aka 'HereticLoadingScreenEx') is better understood ... how long before somebody makes a mod with a startup screen that mimics ye olde console look

[dpJudas]

Hehe, probably not very long. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone mimicked the DOS version of it.

[MartinHowe]

As I'm completely unfamiliar with this new system, are there any docs yet? Can't find anything on the Wiki. Or is there some code in gzdoom.pk3 that I could look at to see how even the red progress bar is done? Or a list of APIs?