Female DOOM Monsters

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Devianteist
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Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Devianteist »

This was originally going to be a reply in the Spriting Carnival thread, but it became so long and so off-topic that I figured it wasn't worth leaving buried in a thread, so I'l leave it to be buried in a forum where it has more chances of being found. Plus, I figured if I have a point, I might as well make it while I actually felt like doing it.
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For some time now I have observed many discussions concerning female creatures being featured in DOOM. Many users point out that DOOM's current monsters either cannot be classified by gender, or are obviously male to the point of no question. That is not what this topic will be about.

Advanced note: I am not religious in any way; I simply am taking knowledge from religious sources and applying it to my work. Also, I am male, and do not support the whole extremist women's rights or whatever those cooks are. I'm just makin' a post on teh interwebs.


Ever since man has begun depicting Demons and evil spirits, they have depicted them as twisted and evil versions of familiar shapes and bodies. Humanoid in shape and stance, but often adorned with the heads, and/or legs, of goats or monsters (or any other kind of animal really). Many of these depictions are very distinctly male in build, stature and, sometimes, genitalia. In comparison, there are relatively few female depictions of Demons, or so my research has led me to believe.

It seems culture has a strong fascination with the male body, and how far it can be distorted, warped and mangled, while culture places the female body in an admired, but often taken for granted, place of serenity. Where the villains of many stories are men, or obviously male creatures, there exists a minority of women, or otherwise female, villains or evil creatures. While there has been an increase in gender diversity over the years in gaming, it would seem that that diversity has come along much more slowly into the modding community.

That is where DOOM comes in, and where I will get to the point of this post.

Many people have suggested and attempted to create female versions of DOOM's classic monsters. Former Human females are particularly notable as being one of the only, if not the only, truly female enemies that have been created for the original DOOM games. Despite the arguments and theories put forth by many people in the community, DOOM's cast is distinctly male in appearance. While the obvious sausage-fest that plagues DOOM's cast is not really a problem, the point of this thread is to make spriters think about how they might go about making female versions of DOOM's cast in the future,

Moving on.

Hell is a strange place. Often described in horrific and disturbing ways, it is also a place of diversity (obviously moreso than Mario Kart 8, if I may jest). DOOM's cast perfectly reflects this. What many people don't see to grasp is that not all Demons are horrific, horned or goat-looking creatures. They are distortions of the human body, mockery of God's work. DOOM also conveys this very well (Imps being a fine example, as well the Barons and Knights of Hell). However, Hell is often associated with, and represented by, the Seven Deadly Sins, as they have become called.

Wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.

DOOM actually represents a select few of these Sins very well with the current cast, however, we will focus on only a few of the sins that apply to my point; Lust, Greed an d Gluttony.

Many people try to depict female DOOM monsters as just looking like the males, but with breasts and clothing (though I saw one guy/gal give a Pinky utters, creative), yet that doesn't make sense. A female Demon would utilize Lust, Greed and Gluttony to their advantages and, such, would reflect this in their appearances. Playing off of their female status, they would utilize natural beauty, and the dark desires locked away in men's hearts to lure them in before striking. A good example is the Succubus, something one of DOOM's monsters is named after (although the Mancubus should actually be called an Incubus, but whatever). Succubi are female demons that, using their beauty and men's desires, will mate with a man before submitting them to some horrible fate.

This then comes around to attempts at female Mancubi that I have seen and been disappointed in. Where a Mancubus is ugly and fat, a Succubus would be lean and too beautiful to look away from.
A female Imp would be slender and tall, with a body that would lure in a victim before they tear them apart.
Pinky demons would probably be more or less like cows, so whatever with that.

The point is, is that people seem not to take into consideration that these creatures are from Hell, the kingdom of sin, pain and despair. These creatures are going to do whatever it takes to make sure you end up there with them, and they will use sin to their advantage, especially if they're female. HELL, I'd be more afraid of an army of female Demons than I would be of millions of Beserker enhanced Cyberdemons, because at least I know that I'm guaranteed a quick death, who knows what horrors a female would inflict upon man or woman that strayed too close.

A great, no, PERFECT example or a female Demon done right is the DOOM 3's Vagary. Unless the first thing you see of her is her spider-body or her face, any man with a dark desire and easily sparked interests would be hard-pressed not to approach her in a dark or otherwise hard to see in place. They would be too close to avoid her when they realize that she is not what she seems, and she would use that to her advantage. Yes it would be pretty difficult not to notice the fact that she's half-fucking-spider, but creatures like her would probably be skilled enough to conceal their true selves until the moment to strike was at hand.


Hopefully I've made my point, if not, here...

TL:DR?

My point is, female demons don't just look like the males with boobs or slimmed down bodies. They are manipulators, thinkers and powerful agents of sin. They would look drastically different from their male counterparts to the point of where no relation could be drawn between them unless one saw them fornicating or something. So, anyone who looks into creating a female demon anytime soon, keep this in mind; They are more than they would appear to be, and the Vagary is a perfect example of this.


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Pointless rant is pointless and probably staggers off all over the place, but oh well. I gave it a shot, and I'm pretty proud of it. Feel free to disregard it if it just seems like senseless rambling.

Thank you and good day/night (whenever you decide to waste your time reading this essentially pointless wall of text about an essentially pointless subject). :P
Last edited by Devianteist on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hellser
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Hellser »

TL;DR. This isn't a blog. :|
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Devianteist »

Not really meant to seem like I'm blogging, rather, I just felt like giving my point of view on the subject of female DOOM monsters simply because it is an interesting subject that people seem to woefully take in the wrong direction.
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Hellser »

It's been said however in the various of threads where female monsters exist - both with strong opinions support and against the idea. That's my two cents anyways. :)
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Athel
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Athel »

The only enemy I know that even looks like a female in many ways is the DoomImp.

That is all.
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by scalliano »

Devianteist wrote:(actually did read all of it)
Granted, but what you're suggesting is tricky to pull off effectively in a game. Female former humans are relatively easy to implement convincingly because they'd be driven by the same base, low-level murderous intent that the regular small fry are. And, as clearly female as the Vagary is, she still very much goes straight for the juggular in terms of her behaviour.

I think the key word here is deception. It has been written many times throughout history that evil appears in a form that is pleasing to the eye. And since it was the men who generally went out and did the fighting and bringing home of bacon (with the balance beginning to shift to the centre only really in the last hundred years or so) it stands to reason in myth and legend that female demons would prey on what were generally considered to be masculine instincts/traits/flaws/whatever (the aforementioned sirens/succubi/etc play into this). And so it follows that depictions of female demons in games, whilst not necessarily pornographic in nature, tend to be smokin' hot nonetheless (Daggerfall is a good example of both). But the question remains, how would that work as a gameplay mechanic in a game where you already know everything is trying to kill you?

That said, there is one thing the Vagary has going for her. If you consider the likes of Echidna, there is always the "motherly" aspect of hellspawn. They have to "spawn" from somewhere ...

*cough*Doom64*cough*
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by raymoohawk »

female demons dont have to be portrayed as attractive, they can be, but they dont have to (and this is coming from someone working on hdoom). making a badass but ugly looking female demon is just as valid as making a beautiful one, take the mother demon from d64 or the alien queen for example
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by SamVision »

scalliano wrote:They have to "spawn" from somewhere ...

*cough*Doom64*cough*
*cough*Icon on Sin*cough
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by grouchbag »

:-? :-? :-?
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Devianteist »

scalliano wrote:
Devianteist wrote:(actually did read all of it)
Granted, but what you're suggesting is tricky to pull off effectively in a game. Female former humans are relatively easy to implement convincingly because they'd be driven by the same base, low-level murderous intent that the regular small fry are. And, as clearly female as the Vagary is, she still very much goes straight for the juggular in terms of her behaviour.

I think the key word here is deception. It has been written many times throughout history that evil appears in a form that is pleasing to the eye. And since it was the men who generally went out and did the fighting and bringing home of bacon (with the balance beginning to shift to the centre only really in the last hundred years or so) it stands to reason in myth and legend that female demons would prey on what were generally considered to be masculine instincts/traits/flaws/whatever (the aforementioned sirens/succubi/etc play into this). And so it follows that depictions of female demons in games, whilst not necessarily pornographic in nature, tend to be smokin' hot nonetheless (Daggerfall is a good example of both). But the question remains, how would that work as a gameplay mechanic in a game where you already know everything is trying to kill you?

That said, there is one thing the Vagary has going for her. If you consider the likes of Echidna, there is always the "motherly" aspect of hellspawn. They have to "spawn" from somewhere ...

*cough*Doom64*cough*
You make a fair point, and I had forgotten about the Mother Demon in D64.
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Caligari87 »

I'd argue that overall the "purpose" of hell/demons/evil is a subversion of that which is good. A female demon need not be seductive, although that is one particular aspect that can be explored. Rather, she would be a corruption of the inherent good we tend to associate with the female gender, whether that be chastity, motherhood, kindness, beauty, etc. A male demon should likewise be a corruption of the good we associate with the male gender, such as bravery, protection, chivalry, fatherhood, etc.

To be completely fair, that comes off sounding rather gender-discriminative to say that each gender is associated with those things, but I hope the point is understood. A female demon doesn't necessarily need to be evilly sexual as a corruption of virtue; it would be just as effective to have her be ugly and deformed as a corruption of beauty, for example.

8-)
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Devianteist »

I'm glad to see that there are people who understand these things much better than I do.
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Caligari87 »

I wouldn't say it's necessarily understanding, it's about interpretation. For me, coming from life in a religion that doesn't really have a traditional concept of demons or hell, I have a lot of mental room to play around and find interesting connections, and I enjoy exploring those ideas.

Among other things, my interpretation is influenced a lot by such things as Silent Hill for example, where Pyramid Head might represent Jame's repressed (possibly violent) sexuality and need for self-punishment, or the Insane Cancers may reflect teenage Heather's fears of weight gain or disease (just my interpretation). I just find that idea of evil and hell to be more compelling than just generalized "evil demons with pitchforks", which is what Doom's aesthetic tends toward.

8-)
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by scalliano »

Subversion is good, and my previous post was not strictly an extrapolation of how I think female demons should be portrayed, rather how they tend to be portrayed (if at all). Clotho from God Of War is a decent example of how an overtly female monster can be grotesque (although gag boobs are in full effect) and of course we have the aforementioned Alien Queen and Motherdemon. It can be done, but a lot of times authors tend to take the easy way out by simply taking an established design and sexualizing it. Not that that in itself can't be done with a bit of finesse, but it's a rare occurrence.

When I sat down to do those zombie scientists a while back, I had it in my head that I wanted them to look semi-believable (within the confines of Doom, at least). That's why they don't have much in the ways of clothing damage, save for a few bloodstains and such (granted, some of the female ones are in skirts and heeled slippers, but I'm working in 32x64 pixels here, I can be forgiven for a bit of tertiary, can't I? :P). The reason being is that, regardless of gender, they all serve the same purpose ie killing the player. When I released the demo of ToPII, one of the criticisms I got over on Doomworld was that they sounded like pornstars. Considering that I ripped their sounds straight out of Silent Hill that came as a bit of a shock. I guess interpretation counts for a lot, too ...
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Re: Female DOOM Monsters

Post by Marisa the Magician »

Looks like this thread has been going on while I was coming up with concepts for "moé" versions of Doom monsters.

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