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Honestly, the lava looks more like molten cheddar than lava.

It looks almost like the ROTT lava, but not quite. (None of the reds are there.) Recolored DooM water maybe?

XutaWoo wrote:Honestly, the lava looks more like molten cheddar than lava.

E5M1: Velveeta Caverns.

I've been working on that DooM map again.

I think it's going good.

Spoiler:

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Wow, Sonny! Nice!

I just finshed up a bitch-ass gore system for when you blow off a zombie or imp's head. It expands on the wandering headless sprites my ex did for me. Effin' hilarious stuff.

Ceeb wrote:Wow, Sonny! Nice!

It does, very nice. I just have one problem with it (and I can't believe that I am saying this - because I have usually taken the opposite stand point) it looks predictable. What I mean by that is it has a certain style that every "cool" map seems to have to have these days. You know, the stepped overhangs on the ceiling with a matching texture around it, the big entrance with an overhanging roof, the metal edged alcoves (coupled with textures or a certain style too)...

It's the kind of appearance that was pioneered (I think) by Tormentor and then taken further by Vader. This is not bad in itself. Both of those people are excellent mappers and I am not trying to criticise their work at all - they have made some of my favourite maps and pushed the boundaries of what can be done with Doom in the process. Also, I'm not criticising the skill with which you (Sonny) have put together your map. From what I can see, it too looks good and as if it will turn out pretty nice (though it needs some tweaks). It's just that it also conjures up feelings of "oh, it's one of those type of maps" and "I've seen this before" in me. Almost like getting a present at Christmas that you were really looking forward to only to find, when you open it, that you already have one almost exactly like it.

Enjay wrote:I just have one problem with it (and I can't believe that I am saying this - because I have usually taken the opposite stand point) it looks predictable. What I mean by that is it has a certain style that every "cool" map seems to have to have these days.

Ironically enough I was just about to say the same thing, though that may be because I have spent the last 6 months playing 'older' WADs.

The first (outdoor) shot has potential, the second shot is a squarish, flat room with an obnoxiously lumpy floor.

Also, 2mbrown.wad textures have absolutely no stylistic consistency between many of them, and it shows here: the gray wall supports with big rivets don't especially match with anything, for instance.

I do miss the days when mapping was largely an expression of the mapper rather than trying to look cool and follow the opinions, examples and guides laid down by T667/Vader/essel/etc. There's a reason the Scythe, HR and MM series are so popular and enduring - they provide varied gameplay at a high quality (the architecture is also fairly good in some of the maps and the look is generally acceptable at minimum). When you're trying to go for that certain look, you do end up stuck in the same style of gameplay.

Phobus wrote:I do miss the days when mapping was largely an expression of the mapper rather than trying to look cool and follow the opinions, examples and guides laid down by T667/Vader/essel/etc.

Hey now, don't try to pin this one on me. I'm outspoken about flat square rooms, obnoxious floor height changes, alignment cutoffs, and mismatched 2mbrown usage.

The detail on the second and third shot just look... Random. Like they are there just to be there. Almost like someone has been following T667's detail guide...

esselfortium wrote:obnoxious floor height changes,

It wouldn't be any problem however, if those floor height changes have a use, such as demons pouring from those sewers, or it is Eternity 3d, IF it's mapped for Eternity (and if now is the far future).

printz wrote:

esselfortium wrote:obnoxious floor height changes,

It wouldn't be any problem however, if those floor height changes have a use, such as demons pouring from those sewers, or it is Eternity 3d, IF it's mapped for Eternity (and if now is the far future).

...wait, what? I'm not sure I understand. What does that have to do with the fact that player movement becomes an exercise in futility when moving across large floor bumps, particularly ones with no need to exist? Those scenarios you described make no sense to me as an explanation for what he actually built there.

esselfortium wrote:

printz wrote:

esselfortium wrote:obnoxious floor height changes,

It wouldn't be any problem however, if those floor height changes have a use, such as demons pouring from those sewers, or it is Eternity 3d, IF it's mapped for Eternity (and if now is the far future).

...wait, what? I'm not sure I understand. What does that have to do with the fact that player movement becomes an exercise in futility when moving across large floor bumps, particularly ones with no need to exist? Those scenarios you described make no sense to me as an explanation for what he actually built there.

I said, that annoying detail might not be as bad, if it had a real game influence, and not just placed to look "good". Such as lots of floor noise to signify an "unrecommended" danger area that might quake off later (especially when editable slopes become a possibility), or just have a lot of monsters that make walking through it a nightmare. Or lava cracks that actually do shoot with fireballs or Doom3-style lost souls later. Maybe it could be cheesy if this is overdone, but I'm not buying it.

printz wrote:It sucks

esselfortium wrote:It sucks

zap610 wrote:It sucks

BoldEnglishman wrote:It sucks

Enjay wrote:It sucks

Well. I'm glad we've finally found an activity we can all enjoy together.


But seriously, while I appreciate your criticism, I don't think any of you really understand what the level's layout is going to be. Maybe the architecture is standard, but I do know level design, and I can assure you that the detail will be quality and the gameplay will be enjoyable.

Ceeb wrote:Wow, Sonny! Nice!

And thanks.

printz wrote:

Your untested concept ideas about what might theoretically make bad map design be "worth it" are not actually worth fighting for.

And Sonnyboy, I know this is early, but is it me or does your map have no light changes at all? Also, I don't think Printz said your map sucks, seems like he's your White Knight, if you will.