It isn't a huge, groundbreaking mod, but it wasn't really intended to be. It's intended to be an extra episode for Doom 1, and I think it fits in pretty nicely into that role. I'm actually pretty impressed with some of the ideas in these levels like the crusher maze, the consistency with his new eye-target gimmick (I didn't expect to see it again after the first map). Chris has a point with the secrets; I think some of them were a little too obscure (auto-map secret in M3, for example), but mostly my problem with them is that all of them seem to be marked with hidden lines so the auto-maps he gives you almost every map don't actually do anything.
Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:52 am
by djonas
Mightily impressive, lots of great ideas. Huge fan of E5M2, E5M5 and E5M6, but E5M7 prior to ending was also great. The only weak levels were E5M8 and E5M9, the former was very anticlimatic, the latter was just there.
Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:26 am
by drfrag
Mystery solved, demos play properly with version 1.0 of the wad but he dies very soon. Seems demo3 goes out of sync.
Also i see i didn't change all the choco icons somehow. I'd like to add the graphic for the extra skill level but choco doesn't support graphics in the exe i think.
Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:30 am
by dpJudas
Very optimistic of him to record a demo in the first place.
Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:28 pm
by Rachael
Well - I streamed it live. I don't play it quite like Romero does - honestly I think that's complete bonkers and I am not comfortable playing that way. Besides - most "hard core old skool" players are a minority, anyway, no matter what Doomworld would have you believe.
I streamed on Twitch just like I promised, but I uploaded the videos to Youtube for posterity. I did two sets, since I had to stop in the middle of the first one in order to take care of real life stuff.
I remember Icarus saying that the encounters were pretty tedious. I agree. Putting a bunch of pinkies and barons everywhere was kind of fucked up, in my opinion - but luckily I rarely ran out of ammo to deal with them. It just made the pacing of the gameplay really slow - especially if you fucked up, which you will - a lot. I will say that the telefrag teleporters for the Cyberdemons was real clever though - I liked that.
The maps themselves are very beautiful. There is some linedef abuse going on - but it's nowhere near the point that it would cause GZDoom to buckle under the weight. The entire mapset is very playable, even on older machines, and that is something I can definitely appreciate. Those of you who know me know that I do not appreciate it when mappers brag about their 200,000 linedefs in a single level. It's obnoxious and extremely overdone. (Sorry) I will never argue that the end result is impressive visually - and props to you for that - but it's unplayable. That's just how it is. Luckily for us, Romero did not cross that threshold.
I am not going to play this to the end on stream. I know I probably should, but I just have no interest in playing the later levels without cheating. I ultimately want to finish it, not save-scum my way through a 5 hour slog. No one likes a stream with cheats, so I won't be broadcasting that.
Overall, I appreciate Romero for releasing this and letting us enjoy his work that much more. Sure, it's far from perfect, but it has a certain old school charm that all Romero maps did - that just can't be replicated easily. I hope everyone else has at least as much fun with it as I did!
Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:01 pm
by drfrag
Rachael wrote:I just have no interest in playing the later levels without cheating. I ultimately want to finish it, not save-scum my way through a 5 hour slog.
But why don't you play it on HMP instead?
SIGIL discussion (John Romero's new Doom1 episode)
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:02 pm
by Dancso
[Enjay: moved this post from its own (effectively duplicate) thread]
Hey. Couldn't find a thread about this so i figured why not.
The free version just became available: https://www.romerogames.ie/si6il
A friend and I have just finished playing it through with Zandronum..
Spoiler: my opinion and impressions
Didn't like it. I admit I went into it with a great deal of scrutiny. It's hard for any one person to match the quality of a masterpiece they worked on with a team over two decades ago.
That being said, I think there are actual design flaws that I thought unlikely given this is Romero's work. I've recently listened to some of his speeches on youtube about game/level design, and much to my surprise he seemed to violate some of those rules in these levels. (like (not) providing a constant sense of direction and feedback on what the switches do)
The eye shooting gimmick.. I guess it's okay to have some puzzle elements but at times I felt like they were edging on being a secret that is required to make further progress. It was especially infuriating to have a constance of danger while having to search for ways to make progress where the level didn't organically feed you a direction... like in E5M5. We actually got stuck on that level, somehow the walk trigger that was supposed to lower the wall in front of the blue door didn't work (probably co-op specific), we wasted 40 minutes trying to press use on every inch of the level all the while taking lava damage. Ugh.
In general the levels often felt cramped and a number of encounters involved corner-peeking a tough monster in a tight hallway with very little ammo. Also not a fan of the use of crushers, least of all the ones that are designed to catch you on the backfoot. Playing with "doom" sector lighting mode turned out to be a mistake as I struggled to see anything in major portions of some of the levels. (my poor, poor eyes) I found the levels to vary quite a bit on pistol-start friendliness. It took us 2 accidental exits before we learned what the exit looks like, which is unlike the exits in the old levels. The cyberdemon fort in E5M9 can eat my shorts. We got lost numerous times.
Alright well, you can tell I'm venting a lot of negativity here because we happened to have a sub-par time with it. We had to use a level skip to get over E5M5 and we also jumped over a few others because survival mode made us lose patience as we died just an inch away from exiting. (our own fault)
I had a growing negative disposition which made it harder to notice the good parts, but here are my thoughts towards that:
The levels were fairly organic looking and abstract, much in the style of the original levels that we know and love. A few times the strong contrast in lighting did create some epic silhouettes with barons of hell and such.
Some of the levels had decent "scrappy" moments where we had to conserve ammo, find secrets and save on health, though I would've preferred to be less reliant on the pistol.
Aside from a few hiccup areas, generally the level of detail was fitting with a gameplay oriented design rather than trying to look pretty (could've done with a few less cracks in the floor)
The midi tracks were pretty good across the board, had a few bangers. I imagine the paid version's music is probably awesome.
And I guess we were entertained free for an evening so, thank you John!
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:23 pm
by Rachael
Oh I neglected to mention - the youtube videos I posted today -
Big shout out to dpJudas! The renderer I used in those was Vulkan, which worked significantly better for me streaming than OpenGL did. For some reason OBS does not like Optimus laptops when streaming OpenGL, it will only work if you run the game on the Intel processor. But with Vulkan, it's no issues, and runs just fine on the NVidia. Which made my streaming experience way less laggy.
So - thanks again, dpJudas!
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:39 pm
by dpJudas
Hehe, thanks! I guess OBS has better Vulkan support than OpenGL. I'm glad that solved a performance problem for you.
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:55 pm
by SamVision
I played through this and it's... alright. It's not great by any means and it doesn't live up to the standards of Episode 1, but its not the the worst map pack I've ever played. That being said it's definitely a one-and-done affair for me.
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:23 am
by Guest
Sigil is awesome, and I'm sad so many people are hating it. "Not the worst I've every played"... statements like these makes me sick. Levels are beautiful, fresh and original, not your typical rip and tear. You need thinking and slow movement is preferred. Levels are basically E4M2 and E4M6 on steroids.
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:45 am
by Rachael
Uh, I'm sorry that not everyone worships Romero like a god? That kind of thing is very cult-like, and if anything is "sick" that's truly much closer to mental illness than not liking his work.
There is no denying he's had a massive influence on a lot of our lives - but that's no reason to put him or his works on a pedestal. He's just a man who happens to be pretty cool. And makes maps. And a professional game developer. That's about it.
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:50 am
by osjclatchford
Rachael wrote:Uh, I'm sorry that not everyone worships Romero like a god? That kind of thing is very cult-like, and if anything is "sick" that's truly much closer to mental illness than not liking his work.
There is no denying he's had a massive influence on a lot of our lives - but that's no reason to put him or his works on a pedestal. He's just a man who happens to be pretty cool. And makes maps. And a professional game developer. That's about it.
very funny indeed. And to be honest a little sad because it's all 100% true. This unfounded/obsessive worship you often see with rockstars and the like is actually rather worrying tbh... Being a fan is one thing but come on... Be objective.
Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:55 am
by JadedLexi
Worship me instead, and I may yet be merciful.
Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:46 am
by drfrag
You're going to make me play the damn thing sooner than i planned. Worship Baphomet instead.