[NSFW/Question/Code] RV-007's Noob Mapping/ACS Disaster!

[RV-007]

Do you have any further questions or do you use this topic as a blog?

I think I am quite finished with all my mapping questions. The topic will have the tag [NSFW/Resolved]. Yes, I believe the map is NSFW now b/c of the sprite. It's not all that, but enough to be considered NSFW. I will soon make an offline tutorial website with edited images from the map. Anybody can post stuff up if they believe there is some basic mapping components that needs to be added or changed.

I do have one more (actually, several!) question. Should I make a credits roll intermission cluster? It will cite everybody who unconsciously/subconsciously/consciously contributed to the map. Once again, thank you (all) to those who have helped in some way.

EDIT (08/06/2014):
I thought I was finished, but I ran into some 3D floors sectors/lines problems (was about to make the outdoors area and finishing stuff, but something nagged me).

First question: I am aware of intersecting 3D floors sectors trouble on a top-down perspective. I have yet to use 3D perspective just yet so I might do that soon. I don't think 3D perspective has anything new in mapping features from top-down perspective.

Second question: "How do I make more action specials in sectors that already peruses Sector_3DFloor? I don't think I can find another special parameter in one line. This question can lead to a vague vague suggestion. You can say I might want some interactive objects/sectors in one floor and some non-interactive objects/sectors in another.

The same question above can also be applied to room-specific (wall [3D Midtex lines will work only once on a given line I believe]) switches adjacent to "3D floor" model/control sectors. Will 3D perspective be enough to resolve these 2 3D floor questions? I believe that resolving these two questions will allow 3D floors to be used in a variety of ways, thus progressing the ZDoom engine. I don't get downer because these questions are really hard questions and the answers might cause mapping break-through for the engine and map editors. I feel that this mapping component is left unfinished at the moment.

[cocka]

the map is NSFW now b/c of the sprite.

I "love" these abbreviations. OK, I know that there are sites such as http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/

But if there are always some abbreviations in your posts then people might think that you don't really want them to find out what problems/questions (concerning zdoom) you have.

I don't think 3D perspective has anything new in mapping features from top-down perspective.

You might as well create a map with 3D floors without using 3D mode. Or.. what did you mean by that sentence?

"How do I make more action specials in sectors that already peruses Sector_3DFloor? I don't think I can find another special parameter in one line.

Would you elaborate this? Tell an example. Sector specials are less flexible but you can use combined sector specials having 4 digit numbers. Some of the action specials can also be applied to sectors by using scripts.

You can say I might want some interactive objects/sectors in one floor and some non-interactive objects/sectors in another.

Solve it with scripts and tell examples not just general thoughts about your concerns!

[RV-007]

Watch out dudes, here's a 1024x768 (sorry about the size). Hopefully the image clears up my sentences and makes a progress to my map. Thanks in advance.

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[Enjay]

I'm not sure what you are doing there. Are you saying that the circled lines are the Sector_Set3D lines? If so, from what I can tell from the screenshot, that doesn't seem like it will do what you want it to.

[Kappes Buur]

I had a look at the map you posted on the previous page and, besides some minor editing incongruities, two things
struck me as odd:.

1. Applying a switch texture flush with the wall was the way it was done in 1994-1995, and is not the way to do it now.
Especially when the room is very tall and the texture repeats vertically.

To limit a switch to a certain height you should consider recessing the switch:

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2. You may have tackled the concept of 3D floor in the wrong fashion.
To me it looks like that you set each 128 high space as a 3D sector. That's probably the cause of your problems.
Instead set the floors, with maybe a thickness of 8, as solid 3D floors to form the ceiling of a lower space and
the floor of the next higher space, eg:

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Also, what do you mean by making 3D sectors 'interactive' ?

[RV-007]

As you can see in Kappes Burr's image, there are those buttons that can be activated as a switch. However, the entire vertical texture is considered usable (and visibly inconvenient). I figure that I can make some 3D floor sectors to become wall switches (it does not need to be embedded anymore) or just walls (both switch and wall will have their own respective texture). The only problem is that there is only one allowed Special parameter and only one allowed Special parameter value. Reference from the red circle encircling the number #160 (link) points out the limitation. I can't stick another special (one with a trigger). I can try to put Sector_Set3dFloor into a SCRIPTS lump, but it is not allowed (link [search Sector_Set3dFloor and you will see "No script" string value in Script attribute])! If it is allowed (and mind you that this could be a hassle trying to connect the dots [I still would rather let this happen {comparing "non-triggered specials versus triggered specials" to which all specials should be allowed in SCRIPT lumps for variety of situations}]), I could use ACS_Execute (link) in the sector's Special parameter with the appropriate trigger(s).

[cocka]

I don't really understand your problem here. As I said use scripts. When there is a script on the switch you can test which floor the player is on with this function:

[wiki]GetActorFloorZ[/wiki]

I can't stick another special (one with a trigger).

But you can set a lineid for the line with special 160 and then assign another special to the line with an OPEN script.
I don't think it would work but you can give it a try.

all specials should be allowed in SCRIPT lumps

No, you are wrong. There are several action specials which cannot be used in a script because it wouldn't make sense to use them in scripts.

the sector's Special parameter

You cannot set any special parameters for sectors. As I mentioned sector specials are hardly flexible.

[RV-007]

That GetActorFloorZ would actually be very helpful to prevent stupid infinite vertical texture from being activated at any height. I believe this would resolve all stupid infinite vertical textures and their infinite height use.

I will try that line id method. If it works, then problem solved with using any 3D floor sectors that might be crates, etc.

Other than that, there is the apparent need to create sector objects in multiple floors (hopefully without much problems).
I know there are other things to be addressed, but that's for later.

EDIT (11/06/2014):
Alright, I tried the line id thing, to no avail. Looks like that GetActorFloorZ would be more useful as buttons for walls adjacent to 3D floor sectors (control over image in texture not included). Just need to adjust the placement of the height and player uses, lol.

[RV-007]

Well, I fear the worst.

I am afraid I am not able to create optimal features with 3D floors (in software render mode). Maybe it's my incompetence, but it's getting quite difficult to experiment with 3D floors from just using a top-down view. I see the doom2 map30 and somehow there are multiple ZZZFACE lines in the same place? I couldn't believe nor can comprehend such a thing at this time. Perhaps that knowledge will suffice in creating usable 3D sectors in a building room.

Maybe I will use the hardware render mode from now on, but boy do I have it as unreliable (in fast rendering).

[wildweasel]

Maybe I will use the hardware render mode from now on, but boy do I have it as unreliable (in fast rendering).

Because you need to INSTALL YOUR GPU DRIVERS.

[VGA]

And the circle ... is complete.

[FDARI]

Don't ask me about the !y. My first attempt was so pathetic. ! was meant for operands, not variables or values. As for loops, that's a different story.

NOTE ABOUT UNTIL LOOPS:
To do an until loop, simply add a ! (not) sign at the beginning (eg. while(!(i>0))

I should have read the Continue article more carefully.

continue is used in a for, do, or while loop to end the current iteration, returning to the start of the loop.

I know the point I bring up is not a current issue for RV-007, but the information I have might be useful for him. A little wiki-improvement might subsequently be useful for other inexperienced coders.

"To do an until loop, simply add a ! (not) sign at the beginning." ... of the expression. The example correctly puts the entire expression (the condition) in brackets after the ! operator, so that the operator affects the result of the expression. !(a < b) differs from !a < b. Somebody who's good at instructing newbies should probably improve that.

The article also fails to mention that until loops exist in ACS. At least, they seemed to exist back when I was fiddling around.

I remember writing an article on [wiki]Loops[/wiki] myself, and I think it does a fairly good job of explaining how the loops themselves work. It doesn't give loop-related help, such as recommending use of delay() or explaining that a sufficiently long-running script (without delay/suspend) will be terminated to allow the game to continue. The beginner's article could, perhaps, be more clear about that too. "A portion of a script intended to loop MUST contain at least one "delay" function with a value over 1". A script that is intended to loop INFINITELY will require some form of delay, and the delay will need to be at least 1 tick.

Perhaps someone could modify [wiki]A_quick_beginner's_guide_to_ACS[/wiki] so that it explains the concept of loops, gives one example and details the gotchas and zdoom-specifics, referring to [wiki]Loops[/wiki] for further details about the kinds of loop that exist? I'd do it myself, but I don't know when, and I'll probably end up not doing it...

[cocka]

Well, my learning method was to analyse the original decompiled scripts of Hexen. You can learn the basics of loops there. Try to find out how things work in a vanilla Hexen map. Then the learning curve won't be so steep.

[Mikk-]

I see the doom2 map30 and somehow there are multiple ZZZFACE lines in the same place?

You are wrong here - The Icon of Sin face is made up of 9 textures aligned in "steps". Each part of the face is outset by about 2 map units from the next. On this crude top down diagram the "________" (these are 256 units long) represent where the ZZFACE textures would go and the "|" are the spacers, they would be 2 map units long.

Tier 1 would be 128 units high, tier 2 would be 256 units high and tier 3 would be 384 units high or would be a solid line with void space behind it.

Code: Select all

3|________|________|________|
2|________|________|________|
1|________|________|________|

[RV-007]

I knew it! I knew there was nothing new! I guess I have to figure out another way of building/3D floor aesthetics. Anyways, thanks Mikk.

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Now all I have to do is to select a needle outta of the haystack, id the ZZZFACE lines, and do some aesthetic script, leaving a black void in the metal wall (2nd stage of IOS appears by then [will do this later as this is not a priority @tm]).