What are Your Least Favorite Doom and Doom 2 maps, and why?

[Xaser]

On a quasi-related note, my mind is totally drawing a blank on a map/mod/something that Graf does like. I've never heard of such.

[Hellser]

Roughly Map 15+ for DooM 2 gets boring, and it gets mediocre around Map04. For DooM, the entirety of Episode 4 is just retched in my book.

[InsanityBringer]

I must be weird in that I liked maps like Downtown, and don't really have any complaints with them. When I play Downtown, I get enough sensation that I'm in a city that it works. Sure, it isn't very pretty or even remotely realistic, but it at least works. I also like some of the locations, like the secret in one of the buildings where you end up in what actually feels quite like an area that you'd find behind a large utilitarian building. If you stuck dumpsters, maybe a loading area in the area, it would all fit, but they aren't really needed.

That said, I do sort of wonder how the DN3D guys would handle a level like Downtown. Most of the maps I can remember from Duke that take place in cities are also sort of restrictive, dealing with maybe one part of a street, or a somewhat long, but ultimately linear path, whereas Map13 and Map15 of Doom II are pretty open and allow for a fair amount of roaming.

[Marnetmar]

Round 2 is up.

[printz]

Doom II map 13 "Downtown" and map 16, "Suburbs", because they look so different from what they are supposed to be.

I know vanilla limitations but come on, how about a 1 sector road downtown?

It's a conscious design choice, not anything based on limitations. Doom didn't realistically recreate starports or nuclear plants. The levels have always been abstractions that don't represent anything beyond a basic idea, and the maps were better for it. So expecting to find realistic city blocks seems to be somewhat missing the point.

Abstraction my ass.

Sorry, to disagree but I think many of Doom 2's maps went too far with abstraction. Conscious or not, I'd say many of these maps only show Sandy Petersen's (lack of) map making skills. I'd say it's quite telling that in both Doom 1 and Doom 2 the maps he made on his own were my least favourite ones by a large margin.

yeah, map13 and map16 are very bleak, they feel like travelling through the jam-packed city in a polluted day with lots of paperwork tasks to sort out.

[Matt]

Just played Downtown again.

Plays beautifully, lots of crazy shit, things coming at you from all angles, lots of room to maneuver and you only get stuck in the geometry if you're a[n even more spectacularly huge a] dumbass[ than me].

Doesn't really look or feel much like a downtown at all, even though I can see some things that are clearly based on some architecture somewhere.


EDIT: In other news, I think I hate Gotcha! even more than Icon of Sin.

[MetroidJunkie]

Sorry to bump the old thread but I notice nobody mentioned E4M2. I guess it was decent as far as gameplay goes but the abstract angle was just over the top, I couldn't tell what Romero was going for. A mine that became filled with lava? Then again, he felt proud that he hammered it out overnight so I guess recognizable structure wasn't a priority.

[Quadruplesword]

I know this is supposed to be Doom 1 & 2 maps, but I have to say that my absolute least favorite map in any Doom wad has to be Map27 Mount Pain in TNT Evilution. I only have three words to describe this map. WHAT. WENT. WRONG. I think it's pretty clear that this map wasn't properly play tested because I seriously couldn't imagine who could find this abomination fun. Wide open areas with hit scan enemies and no cover? Check. Incredibly jerkishly placed traps that will most likely result in death if you're unprepared? Check. Extremely limited healing items? Check. And last but definitely not least, a big wide open area with precisely 42 lost souls that spawn in from a big mountain outside that will constantly harass you while you're trying to get through and god help you if you're going for 100% kills and play this map on ZDoom because you have to kill EVERY SINGLE ONE. And just for one final kick in the teeth, the final area before the exit has an arch-vile and several chaingunners on ledges with very little cover.

That map is practically the sole reason why I never go to revisit TNT Evilution (plus several other stinker maps, but this one stands out for me specifically).

[TheMightyHeracross]

Sorry to bump the old thread but I notice nobody mentioned E4M2.

nobody mentioned E4M2

E4M2

I hate Perfect Hatred with perfect hatred; I count it mine enemy.

[ultimategamerxtreme]

Doom 2

Map 11: Map looks good, But thats when you first meet the archviles......i hate archviles...constantly killing me...making me cry...*sniff*

Map 30: Final boss is just a wall...really? I wasn't around in 1994, but didn't people have a better imagination than A WALL AS A BOSS???

im just gonna include Plutonia Doom map on here too...
Plutonia Doom

Map 11:...FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- *Explosion*

[MetroidJunkie]

Map 30: Final boss is just a wall...really? I wasn't around in 1994, but didn't people have a better imagination than A WALL AS A BOSS???

To be fair, that's probably the only way they could've given the monster a weak spot given the infinitum actor heights in Vanilla Doom.

[ultimategamerxtreme]

Map 30: Final boss is just a wall...really? I wasn't around in 1994, but didn't people have a better imagination than A WALL AS A BOSS???

To be fair, that's probably the only way they could've given the monster a weak spot given the infinitum actor heights in Vanilla Doom.

Eh...you have a point...

[idGamer]

For me, I never really cared for the majority of the Episode 4 levels. They had very little new content, no new music, and the levels just generally felt repetitive and dull.

As for Doom 2, I'd have to pick MAP05 and MAP06 as my least favorites, although MAP05 may generate mostly from my childhood, where I had an exceptionally hard time navigating the dark areas of the level.
For MAP06, I find it rather confusing to navigate and has one of my least favorite soundtracks in Doom 2.

[Enjay]

For me, I never really cared for the majority of the Episode 4 levels. They had very little new content, no new music, and the levels just generally felt repetitive and dull.

Agreed. I'd also add that they were in a style that, IMO, didn't compliment the original three episodes at all. As such, Episode 4 has never felt like part of the main game to me but merely something of an uncomfortable and somewhat disappointing bolt-on.

[LostSkull]

Plutonia's Chase. I'm seriously afraid of Arch-Viles and I'm not too fond of mazes either since I saw The Shining.