InsanityBringer wrote:I've never understood why people complained about the E2M2 crate maze. For a maze, it's very easy to navigate, much more so than it's alpha counterpart.
I actually liked E2M2's 'crate maze'. I didn't even really considered it as a maze, but rather a headache to someone who can't make landmarks via corpses.
There's also an automap, so it's not like you'll get lost or something. I also loved the E2M2 cratemaze part, and i'm curious to see how it's integrated with the more hellish influenced parts of that map. The memory i have from that map, is that there were always a few imps roaming around making their little noises (which was kind of scary for me as a kid )
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:42 am
by Vader
We will of course keep the crate maze! I loved that part of the original map as well.
@Sodaholic:
We really don't care about weapons ATM, but I'll look at your rifle when we get around planning that aspect more in detail.
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:06 pm
by Hellser
Good! Keep that crate maze!
Spoiler: Also...
The issue that me and Ryan Cordell (yes, I have him on MSN) talk about is that we hope that TSoZ will be 'modular'. KDiZD ended up to be a headache for those who want to mix-and-match wads with it. Having to literally rip KDiZD apart to get a full featured mod in (Brutal DooM, ww-stranger, Zero Tolerance to name a few). While I also understand the KDiZD was meant to be a full feature mod, some of us prefer to just play with the maps and opt out the special features or make our own for KDiZD. Something that I could see working is making a seperate wad which adds in the alternative monsters and what not. Your choice though in the matter!
Don't want ya'll to make a sweet-looking wad while bringing disappointment to those who are waiting.
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:28 pm
by XutaWoo
Well, Hellser...
The thing is, you'd still have to rip TSoZ apart to modify it like that, anyway; to make it so that certain monster spawns (but not the monsters themselves) can be replaced, they'll need to be made into completely different actors, anyway. Same with the weapons. So really, you'd just end up having to replace those copy monsters and weapons as well.
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:29 pm
by esselfortium
I don't think that would really work, Hellser. The additional monsters and other things are there because they're part of the maps; if there was a way to swap them out for built-in stuff without it affecting the maps they wouldn't be there in the first place.
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:12 pm
by Hellser
esselfortium wrote:I don't think that would really work, Hellser. The additional monsters and other things are there because they're part of the maps; if there was a way to swap them out for built-in stuff without it affecting the maps they wouldn't be there in the first place.
Was just a hope. I hate to touch other people wads to rip it apart to get it to work with something else. Oh well. I can't wait to see the end result. *nod*
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:50 pm
by neoworm
Cant you replace even custom monsters? I always tought its possible when you load the mods in right order. That way you will only need to edit the mod spawners to replace modified actors from KDiZD instead of original monsters.
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:55 pm
by Hellser
neoworm wrote:Cant you replace even custom monsters? I always tought its possible when you load the mods in right order. That way you will only need to edit the mod spawners to replace modified actors from KDiZD instead of original monsters.
What they're talking about is placing a 'new actor' in the map, (I.E. SpawnID 667 would be a Baron Knight-with-a-shield-and-sword thingy). In DooM, there might not be a monster with a SpawnID of 667, so when you create a new mod for TSoZ, it'll pop up with a <!> symbol, so in the end. You will have to modify -something-. Either TSoZ or the mod you want to get working WITH TSoZ. *nod*
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:14 pm
by Ghastly
Hellser wrote:What they're talking about is placing a 'new actor' in the map, (I.E. SpawnID 667 would be a Baron Knight-with-a-shield-and-sword thingy). In DooM, there might not be a monster with a SpawnID of 667, so when you create a new mod for TSoZ, it'll pop up with a <!> symbol, so in the end. You will have to modify -something-. Either TSoZ or the mod you want to get working WITH TSoZ. *nod*
You don't replace with SpawnID. You replace the actor itself (which covers ALL instances of said actor on a map). You could also try making a separate wad as an add-on to replace KDiZD/TSoZD-only actors, which I was doing with Hard-Doom for Scythe 2 (to replace the Dehacked monsters).
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:27 pm
by neoworm
Ghastly_dragon wrote:You don't replace with SpawnID. You replace the actor itself (which covers ALL instances of said actor on a map). You could also try making a separate wad as an add-on to replace KDiZD/TSoZD-only actors, which I was doing with Hard-Doom for Scythe 2 (to replace the Dehacked monsters).
So it works? You can just go to the weapon mod, find a definition of an actor and change the ...replaces shotgun to ...replaces KDiZDshotgun (or whatever the modified shotgun is called) and bam - it works?
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:48 pm
by Hellser
neoworm wrote:So it works? You can just go to the weapon mod, find a definition of an actor and change the ...replaces shotgun to ...replaces KDiZDshotgun (or whatever the modified shotgun is called) and bam - it works?
Pretty much. Though I think you need to load KDiZD first THEN your mod. I.E. -file KDiZD.pk3 yourmodfile.wad/.pk3
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:08 pm
by printz
Relatedly, I hope the new demon-like monsters and projectiles to be hasted for nightmare mode.
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:43 pm
by Vader
I'll make sure they will be
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:59 pm
by Sodaholic
Here's an idea: why not put everything that breaks compatibility (replacements of stuff, like the weapons which were only modified to use the bullet casings) with other mods (like a weapon mod) be put into a wad file which is then put into the main PK3, and if the user wants to play it with another mod, all they have to do is remove that wad from the pk3.
It's a simple and clean solution that would allow the conflicts to be removed by simply removing a file. (hopefully, the user would do this to a backup copy and not their only one )
Re: [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:17 pm
by ChronoSeth
Yes, because placing wad files containing anything other than maps into a pk3 is the right way of doing things. [/sarcasm]
It really wouldn't be that hard to edit a mod to be compatible with KDiZD/TSoZD.
)
I hate to touch other people wads to rip it apart to get it to work with something else. 