ZDoom

ace wrote: But the chances of getting on the id staff for making a good Doom level nowadays would be nil. After all, level design in games today are no longer sector-based. It'd be pretty much useless.

Level DESIGNING and MAPPING are two different things mind you. If to compare a generic techbase of Doom3 or any modern engine, with a quake 1 map that shine in innovation (dunno, a floating castle for instance, with really nice gameplay) then the latter wins.
The problem with Doom is that it's too old for any ID (or any modern game making corporations for that matter) to put interest in. They'll most likely put interest in the newer engines and in authors of their mods.

Kristus wrote: Sounds like what is goin on in the Doom community these days.

I don't think so.

Last year had enough good or great levels - certainly better than the utter linearity of Q4 etc.

Sure there's the occasional misstep but the people who are still mapping for doom and have some sense of quality are too good to forget about gameplay. Not every map may suit everyone's needs but nothing compares to enless exercises in utter linearity.

Nmn wrote:

ace wrote: But the chances of getting on the id staff for making a good Doom level nowadays would be nil. After all, level design in games today are no longer sector-based. It'd be pretty much useless.

Level DESIGNING and MAPPING are two different things mind you. If to compare a generic techbase of Doom3 or any modern engine, with a quake 1 map that shine in innovation (dunno, a floating castle for instance, with really nice gameplay) then the latter wins.
The problem with Doom is that it's too old for any ID (or any modern game making corporations for that matter) to put interest in. They'll most likely put interest in the newer engines and in authors of their mods.

Exactly, and that's the great thing about mappers for old FPS games: They can't create a good map because of putting incredible visual effects to their creation (like a Doom3 map with all that engineshit), they have to create something innovativ and new, to make their map interesting That's why I love DOOM!

ace wrote:The only one I know of is Tim Willits, who got a job after he made Raven only a while after Doom II came out. I wasn't aware there were any others though...

Mike Gummelt, who made the Aliens3 TC, also got a job with Raven, and Justin Fisher, who made the original AlienTC, also received job offers from games companies.

Yeah, but still, it's ten years ago.

ID Software's Mal Blackwell and Kenneth Scott also made a few Doom wads before getting into the games industry. Mal's wads include Boxing, D9, D9-2, D9-2-2 and Redrum, and Kenneth's are Newface and Remorse.

Dario Casali, most famous for being one-half of the Plutonia team (though he also made several other levels before that) was hired by Valve back in '98.

There are plenty of other ex-Doom mappers in the games industry, including (but certainly not limited to) John D. Anderson, Christian David Klie, Alex Mayberry, Denis Moeller, Tom Mustaine, Eric Reuter, Paul Schmitz, Jimmy Sieben and Matthias Worch. Just type their names into the search at Moby Games if you're interested in which companies they work at and/or games they've worked on.

Tormentor667 wrote:Exactly, and that's the great thing about mappers for old FPS games: They can't create a good map because of putting incredible visual effects to their creation (like a Doom3 map with all that engineshit), they have to create something innovativ and new, to make their map interesting That's why I love DOOM!

Innovation in my mind is the elements that get the player hooked in playing the level. There was a great quote by the creater of atari that said the early atari games where great because "They where easy to pick up but impossible to master". Good level design reflects the same principle in my mind. You want to make the player see or understand their objective, all the while building an pattern or building a challange that they will have to overcome to obtain that goal. In my mind, a textbook example of this practice can be seen in any donkey kong country game for snes (II and III especially).

Now I feel the doom community has some great levels floating around there now because the formula for challange is one that has been exersized for a decade now. Get keys, kill guys and survive.

The challange these days is games are combining multiple elements to form something NEW (when really its just a hybrid of several types of gameplay). You are nolonger just killing guys looking for the exit, you are killing enemies AND looking for a hostage while trying to use several abilities to obtain this objective.

I totally agree with Skadoomer.

Indeed, that's true!

Graf Zahl wrote:I don't think so.

Last year had enough good or great levels - certainly better than the utter linearity of Q4 etc.

Sure there's the occasional misstep but the people who are still mapping for doom and have some sense of quality are too good to forget about gameplay. Not every map may suit everyone's needs but nothing compares to enless exercises in utter linearity.

Oh, I think so.

The only thing that the majority of the community have got their focus on is to make the map detailed. What seems like and endless stream of generic maps are being released. They look alike, and they play alike. W/o any intrest into creating something worthwhile. The maps seem to have been made solely for the reason to be made, rather than that the creator had an idea that he wanted to excersise in a Doom map. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone (luckily) but generally. The maps that are being released these days are 80% bland and completely ridden from any innovation. And For the majority of the community it seem to be ok. But I am not able to stay intrested by this.

An inevitable side effect of any mapping community is the failed attempts. But that's the same with every game at every point in time. 1994 had its huge share of crap maps and so does any other game around. I don't see any negative sign there, Not everyone who tries to map has the necessary talent.

Looking great. Say any chance for a new trailer to get us more pumped or don't bet on it? Really liked it with the whole trailer and poster business. so either way keep it up and can't wait for the release.

You asked for it


EDIT: Better image, 'cause I couldn't sleep.

And it's soooo wrong.