ZDoom

Deathsong12 wrote:What's the point of all these awsome editing features like the dailouge system, DECORATE, and ACS if all mappers are going to do is make really pretty Doom? I may as well be using jDoom.

Because maybe they like Doom being Doom (gameplay wise).
And JDoom is in no way a constitute for ZDoom.

Just because the features are there doesn't mean we have to use them to make a good wad. Decorate and Dialogue systems do not make or break a wad.

And 'heh', there is alot of ACS in this wad.

So, 'what's the point?' you ask, to use them if they help us achieve what we want in our levels, if not... then don't use them.

I, out loud, as I clicked on the download link, said, not wrote:I've been waiting to play this all too long...

Lookin' forward to this one.

Deathsong12 wrote:I agree with Biohazard. This is an example of great mapping, but I have the same beef with this as I do with KDiZD. Nothing truly innovative is being attempted here. What's the point of all these awsome editing features like the dailouge system, DECORATE, and ACS if all mappers are going to do is make really pretty Doom? I may as well be using jDoom.

KDIZD makes extensive use of both DECORATE and ACS; as of this moment, the DECORATE is just over 55kb, and the SCRIPTS lumps total over 180kb. There are plenty of innovative things in the project - just wait and see.

NiGHTMARE wrote:the DECORATE is just over 55kb, and the SCRIPTS lumps total over 180kb.

I think if we took all the, uuh, debate around KDIZD and copy-pasted it into a text file it would be larger, alot larger.
And besides, code being many lines doesn't mean its in any way good.

jeeez, Deathsong, you just have to rant about everything

Psycho Siggi wrote:I think if we took all the, uuh, debate around KDIZD and copy-pasted it into a text file it would be larger, alot larger.

Code is a far more efficient medium than any written or verbal human language, so that isn't exactly a useful comparison. More relevant would be how big a DECORATE consisting of all the existing Doom 1 things would be, and I suspect it would be slightly smaller than KDIZD's DECORATE.

And besides, code being many lines doesn't mean its in any way good.

Where did anyone say it was? The issue was whether KDIZD even made use of these things; quality wasn't brought into it until now.

The project is called "Knee Deep in ZDoom," and is meant to be a remake of Eposide One with ZDoom features. By it's very nature, it cannot be innovative. If it does innovate, it has to defy the concept upon which it was founded. Either way, you make sacrifices. To be honest, I think it was a terrible idea. Only the sheer skill that makes up its team saves it from being something like STX's attempt to remake Doom 2. I don't doubt it will be impressive and entertaining, but I sincerly doubt it will break from Doom's gameplay and try something more interesting. I'm not a "KDiZD Hater," but I feel that the project is a testement to the skill of it's creators, built upon a crappy concept.

@Nightmare I was suggesting that length doesn't define quality, or better yet, it doesn't define innovation. Throwing in the size of the script lump was testament to, well, its size and nothing else. So the comparison wasn't that pointless.

As for quality, I'll make no assumptions.

Of course you can take something old and try to add innovative new elements to it. It's been going on in Hollywood for years - and even produces the occasional good result.

KDIZD is certainly not a mere "remake" of episode 1 (and not only because almost all the maps are modified versions of the originals, not rebuilt from scratch), and was never intended to be so.

Then I have no idea what this project is supposed to be. If it is not a remake or update of Episode 1, why call it "Knee Deep in ZDoom?" I recommend "Doom Fashion Show." You've gone from a bad central concept to no central concept. Please bring me up to date as to the intent and basis for this project.

Normally, and pretty much in general, I agree with Deathsong in the use of scripting and decorate and whatnot. The game is 12 years old, and im always on the verge of being burnt out on it.

But as far as simplicity is concerned, it's the most fun i've had playing doom in a while. I think that a wad that manages to captivate the player and make them feel "into it" did their job. Im not sure what did it exactly, but in the later levels of the first episode I got as close to an adrenaline rush that a 12 year old game will physically allow.

As far as the music is concerned, I was a bit dissapointed with most of the levels staying true to the old doom music, as I like the custom stuff much better (already heard the old crap, bored of it), but i think for the levels past 8, it was awesome.

Can't wait to play episode 2. I wish more people divided up their megawads into episodes, I find myself enjoying Italian Doom and Simplicity more than Memento Mori or Alien Vendetta.

Deathsong12 wrote:KDiZD bashing

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. KDiZD is innovative in nature as it's purpose was to show off all of ZDoom's new features in new ways. Just look at the INTERMAP. I have never seen anything like that before.

KDiZD is full of so much stuff that has never been seen before it is difficult to count.

If you played the leak and was unimpressed, know this: 25% of KDiZD's progress has been made in the last month. (IMO)

Bio Hazard wrote:I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

Seconded. Your assumptions are completely unfounded, Deathsong, and very narrow minded indeed. Your swagger around these forums has very little substance, and several times your posts have belied that you in fact know very little about a lot of things, this being a prime example.

Basicaly, what they are trying to say is:
Deathsong you are being a mong, STFU.

Stop ruining AgentSpork's thread.