ZDoom

Md2’s in that case would be the only option, could zdoom even support them?

That's why we have GZDoom. It would be too much work to implement a software model renderer into ZDoom.

I hate GZDooM; besides, it might me possible when Zdoom's Polymost Renderer is finished... I think, that’s what I’ve heard

Why do you hate GZDoom? It has all the features of ZDoom and, with the correct rendering settings, its OpenGL mode looks exactly like ZDoom's software mode.

He hates it because his computer is a POS and won't run it, IIRC.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

The people who're unwilling to realize that others might like a game/port for different reasons than them crack me up. Like the 3D model issue, which surprisingly enough has come up again.... As HotWax said, if you don't like a feature, don't use it. I had this argument with Graf many times back in the day, about how the "option" should be available for something that people like to have, even if Doom purists wouldn't use it. If it's an option, it allows for a broader audience while giving the so-called "pusrirst" the option of keeping their game to the tune they prefer. I guess what I'm trying to say is "why can't we all just get along"? Heh.

@edward850: Polymost doesn't add model support. For the engine to support models in software mode, you'd have to rewrite a hell of a lot of crap, and you'd end up with something that doesn't even look as good as Jedi Knight 1's software mode. And even if that was done, I doubt it would ever go beyond static model support.

Edit: Sorry, HotWax already said basically the same thing.

Nah, I didn't mention polymost because it'll probably happen once DoomScript arrives (i.e. never). I believe the theory of polymost though was a full-3D software renderer (think Descent), which would indeed be capable of rendering models.

Descent had a full-3D software renderer?! Hmm, then why couldn't I ever get it to work?

I wonder when we look down a sprite death frame on the floor why we see it flat instead of see it front splat on the floor ? Just like when we look down a monster in a cliff we see it as front from up (that look wierd, but we see it anyway)

geedougg wrote: Descent had a full-3D software renderer?! Hmm, then why couldn't I ever get it to work?

Unless somebody is playing tricks on me, yes it did. In particular, it used a portal renderer (which IIRC is what randy planned for polymost), which allowed for interesting effects like a small 6-sided cube where each side led to a different (much larger) area of the map.

I wonder if you're referring to the fact that Descent refused to run on certain older CPU's. I too had this same problem with my first PC because it didn't have a built in FPU (Floating Point Unit) that Descent required to run. This could be gotten around using a software FPU emulator, but the results were typically unplayable. I remember laughing quite hard when I tried to play Quake using the same technique and it responded with an error to the effect of "No, you dumbass, using that emulator won't work -- Quake requires a REAL FPU." FPU's are now such a common part of the CPU that they aren't mentioned anymore. They used to be denoted by the addition of the letters "DX" after the CPU number. My computer was a 486 SX-2/50MHz, and so lacked the FPU that its big brother, the 486 DX-2/66MHz had.

Mewdoom wrote:I wonder when we look down a sprite death frame on the floor why we see it flat instead of see it front splat on the floor ? Just like when we look down a monster in a cliff we see it as front from up (that look wierd, but we see it anyway)

.... Huh?

Whenever a sprite is drawn in the software renderer, it is drawn from top to bottom and left to right evenly, that is with no pitch or skew, similar to slapping a flat sticker on your monitor at the position of the monster. The different graphics that make up a monster's rotation are used to trick the viewer into believing they're seeing the same creature from a different side -- in reality it's the same creature using a different graphic that is still being "billboarded" to the screen. The death animation uses one rotation because in making the game, id found that providing multiple rotations for stationary objects caused them to "jump" visually as they rotated, which was distracting. Thus no matter if the enemy is alive or dead, seen from high or low, the graphic will always be drawn in the same billboarded manner to the screen. The reason this isn't as evident with corpses is because of their low vertical height.

Some engines which use hardware rendering seek to reduce this effect by slightly "tilting" the sprite forward or back when seen from sharp vertical angles. This only goes so far, however, because if you could see the sprite from straight upwards, it would appear paper-thin!

HotWax wrote:Unless somebody is playing tricks on me, yes it did. In particular, it used a portal renderer (which IIRC is what randy planned for polymost), which allowed for interesting effects like a small 6-sided cube where each side led to a different (much larger) area of the map.

Somebody is playing tricks on you, at least with that part about portals.

Not according to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_%2 ... er_game%29

(Check the right sidebar where it states "Engine: Portal Rendering System")

Also, a quick search on Google shows that if I am wrong, so are quite a few people.

Bah, models are just better, if you can actually make them look 'as good as' (which is subjective...) the sprites.

Sometimes I think people probably dont even realise that the sprites they are playing with are converted from models of various materials or descriptions. Doom had clay, latex and toys, Heretic/Hexen/Duke used 3d renders. You only have to have a moderate level of skill to make a model, and besides anything, it is the only way to actually create a monster without breaking your head and hands.

Do you think LWM would have made all those fantastic sprites painting frame by frame? Do you actually prefer looking at them in 2d Angle-o-Vision?

I'd love to see high quality models that look as good as the normal sprites in Doom, but they'd either have to be very high-poly or using normal maps to get that much detail into them, and I doubt we'll see that level of rendering in a Doom source port any time soon.