ZDoom

thief666 wrote:esselfortium- thank you for short lesson on work-ethics

the better you are at something or the more knowledeg you have the more broad picture you see.
And the less likely you are to say: Its crap. You say more like: IN MY OPINION or FOR ME its crap.

If a lot of people are telling you you're doing something wrong, you might be doing something wrong.

and sure I like perfectionism but just tell me how many hi res enemy sprites were made for doom by tedious smudging over past years? 4? 5? there is still 495 to make then.
We wont live long enough to see it but maybe our kids.
Proper question is: is block-building methodology (or HD approach) good enough to be worth trying? for some NO
for some YES. for me yes as I see it working in the game.

You think that it's not feasible to do the job well in a reasonable amount of time, so instead you're choosing to do it poorly.

Just think how much of the time you've spent desperately defending your copy-and-paste filter jobs on the internet could have gone towards trying to make better sprites.

esselfortium - I promised myslef to not participate in non-productive discussions and till now I kept that promise - let me break it for this one time (and only this)
because I dont like words "desperate defense" and choosing to do it poorly". Its really easy to make such statements, much harder to really do something.
"If a lot of people are telling you you're doing something wrong, you might be doing something wrong." - number of people disliking this approach and liking it over the time came to about the same (at least the one that kept posting).

"You think that it's not feasible to do the job well in a reasonable amount of time, so instead you're choosing to do it poorly." -

I know it for a fact as well as people who decided to try it that resizing project is almost not-doable. Over few years of time when hi res project existed maybe 10 sprites were made. TEN SPRITES IN FEW YEARS OF ATTEMPTS.
Please do some factual research dont use general, nicely-sounding statements. I like facts, analyze them, draw conclusions and find ways to get something done. The sure way to loose battle is not to try fight at all.


"Just think how much of the time you've spent desperately defending your copy-and-paste filter jobs on the internet could have gone towards trying to make better sprites."
- its not desperate defense - it was discussion during which I learned a lot form better than me, I think I improved, It was rather convincing than defending, and It was not wasted time. Some even helped me in resizin, some teached me smoudging and shading.
I will learn form critics. Your critics is: HD approach not good enough for you, your suggestion: try TEDIOUS smudging- my conclusion - undoable, - life showed it.
Thats it. END of - non-productive-discussion-misery on my side. Not gona to do it again. Waste of time.

EDIT: I have bigger problem righ now - just found house centipede in my kitchen is quite big (longer than index finger) and more scary than spidermastermind, its the the most frightening insect I'd ever seen. It dosent even appear to be terrestrial

I dunno, just listen to what people have to say and either act on it or don't. But a lot of the people here are modders, mappers, etc so I think they're worth listening to if they give specific advice. But let's not derail the thread with that and talk about the sprites.

The shotgun for the sergeant looks pretty good, as does the rifle on the basic zombie. Though I agree that the rifle does look like it's a little too high up, either cause the hand isn't well enough defined from the body or it's not actually touching it close enough.

thief666 wrote:

Hey, remember what I said about it being a good idea to resize them to 2xOriginal in the end?
Well, I gotta say that it sure looks pretty good at that size.

Oh, and also:


Talking about antialiasing. Order's original, antialiased and software-compatible antialiased.
It's kinda subtle though, but it's there.

I think the project is working pretty well. I also think that the "concentrate on the faces" approach is a reasonable compromise that may allow things to get done. Of course just using filters and a little bit of tidying on the rest of the sprite means that the body cannot look as good as the face. However, the face is what gives the sprite is character and, as I have said before, the completed sprites from this project could then act as a starting point for Thief (or someone else) to then do the bodies. So, the project could be thought of as step 1 on the road to getting fully detailed high definition sprites rather than dismissed as a bad job (which I think is overly harsh any way). I for one am looking forward to being able to try these in game.

Regerdless of personal opinion about the sprites, Thief has set himself goals and parameters and, so far, seems to be sticking to them. That in itself is something of an achievement.


I do have one criticism though:

thief666 wrote:EDIT: I have bigger problem righ now - just found house centipede in my kitchen is quite big (longer than index finger) and more scary than spidermastermind, its the the most frightening insect I'd ever seen.

Not an insect.

(It looks like Scutigera coleoptrata to me.)

I kind of like where this is going too. Keep up with the work, it doesn't look as good as it COULD look. But I do think it looks good enough to be finished.
What I would suggest you should do is make a "HD" cacodemon and finish all of its frames. Then you could really see what it turns out to be. Why i suggested the cacodemon is because it has no moving animation, which makes it easier to animate.

I personally think these are excellent, my only gripe is how these will mesh with custom sprites based on the vanilla ones

I have a confession to make: I've been secretly working on my own 8x sprite project! A few weeks ago, I discovered a simple procedural method for nicely resizing sprites. It's so simple in fact that it can be ported natively to ZDoom. Currently, all of Episode 1's monsters have been replaced using this method. You can find the file here:
8x Sprite Project

thief666 wrote:hey,
dont want ot bump up this post, dont know how to update without bumping
just wanted to share some final chenges to sprites, Ive recently made. As I said I am working extremely slowly now,
will come back to full-speed job after december 10th when Ill finally be back home.

but if anyone interested in helping even now I am working on HD elements , so anyone interesed in resizing, let me know! (for now one persone helped to resize machinegun guy)
here is some progress on HD elements, and I think Ive finally found my final style:

UNHOLY JESUS FUCKING JESUS SHIT!

It's starting to become better than I thought it was going to be. These monsters are looking WAY more threatening than these 3D models that we have around. I think I can help in the future, when you finish all sprites, and need a polishing help.

hey Sergeant_Mark_IV ,
Cool! help greatly needed when I am done with applying HD and all initial adjusting. Hopefully will get it to this stage soon.

I'm gonna be honest, that sprite I posted was as a higher-res ZDoom icon. And yes, it is a matter of opinion; however, I am not gonna treat your project like shit just because I think it isn't as appealing. If anything, the sprites have more effort put in them than those other ameteur 8x (or even 16x) projects.

Just a tip, don't contrast-bone the pinky. The characteristic smooth pink colors should stay pink.
And not surpass even the baron in terms of red. Remember, "Pinky".

Snarboo wrote:I have a confession to make: I've been secretly working on my own 8x sprite project! A few weeks ago, I discovered a simple procedural method for nicely resizing sprites. It's so simple in fact that it can be ported natively to ZDoom. Currently, all of Episode 1's monsters have been replaced using this method. You can find the file here:
8x Sprite Project

I see what you did there. :B

hey
thx for suggestions, actually I will first finish demon and imp since most frames are ready.

meantime I hve switched methodology for HELLKNIGHT head -instead of using MD2 texture I am doing it by hand I think it is angrier and closer to original, example below.
Also looking for HD elements for another monsters, since my goal is to get all HD elements before ddecember 10th. Here I found some models on the web,
supposingly these are clay models used by ID software? I am not sure about this, I dont really like this archvile head and mancubus head.. des anyone know whtere this are trully ID models?

That Baron face looks a lot better already, though a bit blurry still.

And yes, those are the actual models used by id Software.