Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b

[Matt]

Would you believe that, this whole time, all these years, I completely forgot to test this mod with the lite-amps? (It looks just a little less awful when you use the new GZDoom green liteamp but it's no less jarring.)

The square is unfortunately inevitable, as the alternative is to make the border completely opaque. I could pull some sci-fi-y bullshit and make all the scopes square, but it just doesn't feel right to me. (which is, granted, a rather fickle justification, so I will look into this.)


EDIT: It seems as though we do not, in fact, have the technology or consumer/political will to develop a telescopic thingy of any kind with a rectangular image. I might have to revise the Thunder Buster sight picture because of this.

The lite-amp problem is surprisingly easy to fix, however, though there was significant cussing in trying to recall the correct ZDoom actor name for the powerup.


EDIT2: The crash seems to happen the moment SetCameraToTexture is called. Does anyone know of another mod where that ACS command is called on the first map, so I can see if it's just the way I do it in HD or if it's something else?

[Hetdegon]

Seemed turning off "camera textures offscreen" did the trick (not even sure why it was on, must have enabled by accident), so I am not sure if this is a bug or undefined behavior on the engine's part

That actually happened to me too, I totally forgot about that until now!

I'd always assumed that it was a quirk of my own system since no one else had reported it. No idea why it would crash like that though - maybe something to do with the texture not existing when it's offscreen???

Yes, by the debug output I think it must be that, probably a pointer is not initialized properly. To confirm, I ran it with the option disabled, enabled it, tested the scope, it worked instead of crashing (although there was a blink-and-you-miss-it visual artifact in the first frame the first time).
I didn't get around to test this, but maybe you could add a little check for the cvar, initialize, and then return to user value, that should be enough to prevent a crash.

With that out of the way, I think it's a pretty nice effect. Clever implementation, didn't know it was possible.

[HexaDoken]

The entire point of my video was to prove that doom 2, is, in fact, possible to beat with HD.

It's just incredibly difficult.

(i'm currently stuck on map06 lawl)

[Abba Zabba]

EDIT: It seems as though we do not, in fact, have the technology or consumer/political will to develop a telescopic thingy of any kind with a rectangular image. I might have to revise the Thunder Buster sight picture because of this.

I wouldn't be bothered with a change, but, in my opinion, if any weapon were to get away with a rectangular telescopic scope, it would be the Thunder Buster and/or the BFG9K (even though in the latter's case you don't really need to aim at all.)

If you do that though I recommend adding the tritium dots to the small arm crosshairs (the pistol and both shotguns, along with changing the rifle's red dot.) I already did this small edit so if you want me to attach them to save you like a minute and a half of work, let me know.

[Big C]

EDIT: It seems as though we do not, in fact, have the technology or consumer/political will to develop a telescopic thingy of any kind with a rectangular image. I might have to revise the Thunder Buster sight picture because of this.

Err...I don't understand why. I figured that the scope was like a TV camera/monitor instead of a glass scope or a flat piece of glass with a holosite projected on it. Like the Cobra cannon from Robocop. :U

That much said, the Buster's scope site being nothing but a red dot in the center bothered me because it was ironically a bit harder for me to aim at a longer distance than the ZM66/Liberator scopes. I gotta have my crosshairs.

[HexaDoken]

---

ATTEMPTS FAILED: 6+1(one of the attempts failed was not technically a death but i accidentally activated a summon talisman and decided to ragequit)

It's around this map that I've realised that it's not just me and my appropriately hideous luck - shotgays are, in fact, seriously op.

Why?

They posess the most devastating attack in the game.

"But wait, Hexa! They are just shooting shotguns, they don't cause the entire universe to fall at you in flames!"

They say that it's not the huge hammer you should be afraid of, but a small blade.

"Hexa, you just made that up."

Touche.

Nevertheless, while a shotgun blast to the face may not be fancy, it is still hideously effective. It is the fastest attack in the game, it cannot be dodged, it is incredibly accurate, it does not lose much power with distance, and it does a LOT of damage.

Even in HD, it's almost never that a single attack kills you but rather a string of them - getting hit by any single attack is almost always survivable, providing you were at full HP, could run away/dispose of the enemy before he could get a chance to finish you, had a medkit to stop the severe bleeding or could put out the fire(by the way, not evidienced in the video but I learned how to put out the fire).

Shotgay blast?

You die.

Outright.

No saving throw.

Well yes, sometimes you survive, but that's rare.

"But Hexa, this isn't the only instakill attack in the mod!"

Alright, this much I'll agree. There are other blasts that will absolutely screw you over, full HP or not.

However, they are also much rarer. I've never been oneshotted by a zombieman or chaingunner or lost soul or any of the demon variants. Only one of the three(?) imp variants has access to an instakill attack, and the more powerful adversaries are more rare. Shotgays? They're everywhere.

Even THEN, almost always before a monster launches an IK, there is some charge sequence, usually loud and visible, so as to give you some time to say "HOLY JESUS SNIFFETS" and make an attempt to either shoot down the baddie or run the hell away. And finally, all monsters that have access to oneshots always have access to more toned-down attacks and thus not always resort to brutalizing you to death.

Shotgays? They just shoot you from the spot. They can't do anything else either, due to not having any other form of attack(not counting kick, but that's silly).

In normal Doom, the danger rating of the basic humanoid monsters is: zombiemen, sarges and imps more or less on same level, with chinagunners above them a notch. In HD, it's zombies, imps AND chinagunners more or less on the same level, with sarges being above by five notches. This is sort of a noticeable balancing issue.

PKSH;236236H, bitches.


*Ahem* Not much to tell about the map in question, it's pretty straightforward too. Not much you could skip other than the SSG secret(a definite skip unless you go for 100%, because well).

Yes, I need a Vulcanette to kill babuins. Deal with it.

Scene not present: I managed to overheat my rifle, it fired one shot and jammed right afterwards pouring lots of smoke. The shot it jammed on was the last shot. What are the chances, huh.

When standing near a wall and waiting for a shotgay to come out of the hiding, I tend to think about things and notice things I never did before. In particular, there is so much texture disalignment on map04 I am surprised I never noticed it. Seriously.

You may have noticed that from the yellow key ledge I threw down a grenade even though I could perfectly just jump there and vulcanette everything. This is what I call "properly paranoid". In HD, helps a lot.

You may have also noticed that I don't use hand nades as much as I used on Underhalls. This is because around the Gantlet I was hit with a bright idea to conserve nades since it's fairly soon that I'll need to disperse then en masse.

---

ATTEMPTS FAILED: 0
HOLY CHURCH OF TWELVE DOGS I'VE BEATEN THE MAP FROM FIRST TRY

I guess this is because we are at the golden point of HD Doom 2 - not too far from earlygame(which is harder for me since I started off as doomed guy) but not too close to middlegame and as such still in the levels that are relatively easy. The fact that the map is particulary rich with soulspheres also helps.

Also less shotgays.

What we see here in the video is me struggling with the bloody constantly overheating rifle of rage. Shoot it too much and it goes into a frenzy, firing and firing until there is nothing left to fire and continiously pouring smoke which may not be very healthy to breathe.

Damn you constantly overheating rifle of rage.

This map is a little less straightforward than the others. Without sequence breaking, there is an area or two that you could skip(soulsphere/berserk area + plasma rifle area, probably not worth skipping because all rewards are very considerable), the blue armor area(probably could be skipped safely), and a few minors here and there. With sequence breaking, it is possible to cut off 50% of the map - this way you don't really miss anything than the abovementioned plasma rifle, berserk pack and an extra soulsphere.

The reason I didn't want to jump straight for the plasma room is because I wasn't particulary fond of being attacked from two fronts without much cover to hide behind.

I very much like how a sizeable chunk of the video is me trying to shoot down some babuins at the exit pit, while continiously trying different weapons. BABUINS

This map introduces three new monsters - the lost souls/firedancers(either they are much easier to predict than babuins or I just have an inherent +8 aim bonus against them), hell knight(who sadly didn't even get to see me since I grenaded him to death) and cacodemons(I very much like their lightning effects).

I like how monsters wander around and thus you can never be sure where exactly they will be when you encounter them. Sometimes this helps tremendously - sometimes it screws me up.

Also, I got two HEAT rounds during this map. This is especially silly since they are the first two HEAT rounds I have obtained IN MY ENTIRE LIFE of playing HD, not counting the ones I cheated for.

Dem RNG.

---

ATTEMPTS FAILED: 25
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Yeah. As you can clearly see, I have much emotions about this map.

On the other hand, the satisfaction of beating it after so much time. I really couldn't believe I did it so easily after failing so much - I triplechecked if anything is wrong before hitting the exit switch. It took me a few seconds of staring at the intermission screen that I did, in fact, won, after which in my soul I was reduced to a jumping dolt screaming "HOORAY!" continiously.

I'd probably do that in real life too, but should I accidentally wake somebody up with this I would not live through to tell.

One thing I like about HD is that it brings me the memories of the past. The way I'm unable to circlestrafe and dodge everything, instead having to rely on cover and be afraid of everything, and not even thinking of engaging three revenants up-front, instead resorting to quickly and cowardily spamming rockets at them while running to cover... It reminds me of how I used to play Doom when I was little. Come to think of it... what I'll say now will probably make most people mark me a heretic, but perhaps HD is what Doom was meant to be in the beginning?


...ahem.

In the map itself there are no particulary difficult spots but it's rather that there is enough room for error throughout it for things to be easy without using saves. The statistically most difficult room is the starting one - not surprising because of little maneuver space and abundance of ever dreaded shotgays.

A surprisingly difficult place is the one right after a blue key door. This is because a bunch of shotgays and imps literally jump at you from nowhere, and there is too little time to run or kill them.

The much more obvious place is the final room, though, surprisingly, less because of the huge yellow key ambush and more because of the ninja demon pirates. I hate ninja demon pirates now. They are even somewhat dangerous to my health, with my heart condition and whatnot.

...hey wait, did revenants and hell knights get smaller? huh?

The squad summoners are being utilized because of the sudden difficulty spike. Though I wish they could stay a bit more.

I've never really used the plasma rifle much before, because it never actually managed to fire, but now that I've either learned it or it was simplified, it appears to be an incredibly powerful weapon. Low ammo cost for much destruction and range, and the only thing you need to do is to stay still for a moment and point at the same thing. Huh.

---

ATTEMPTS FAILED: 2
Well this one was easy.

Come to think of it, this entire thing has spawned as a response to "HURR MAP07 WITH HD IS UNBEATABLE NERF PLS". And yet this so far turned out to be statistically easiest map so far after the waste tunnels.

I get to see a lot new toys now! The Liberator(which I've honestly never seen until now), the Medical deployer thingajabber(which I've never seen until now too), the DERP which gives a pickup message in console but for whatever reason refuses to appear in my inventory(what?), the ZM66 rifle with an underslung grenade launcher which I've long wanted! Add a whole bunch of ammo on top of that plus a full refill of squad summoners and you can hear me squee.

The map is fairly straightforward, as you can see - hide behind a corner, immediately take out three fatsos that are on the land(my first attempt was lost because I could SWEAR there always were two, so I missed the third one), then methodically take out the remaining ones from range. Since it's almost impossible to NOT be surrounded in the arachnotron part, and there are 4 summoners anyway(you can carry a max of 3) summon a squad, then go in other direction chinagun blazing.

Is it me or the combat effeciency of spiritual warriors has been severely nerfed when I was sleeping? I could swear they were more competent than that when I last saw them.

The amount of time taken to record a video is going to change a bit due to the fact that I've beaten all the difficult maps in HD Doom 2! Hooray!

Now it's time to move on to the nigh-impossible ones.

A couple of bugs I noticed:
1) The HEAT round icon on the HUD is displaced - it doesn't appear near it's number, but instead at the very top of the screen a tiniest bit of it can be seen.
2) I picked up a DERP and saw it's pickup message in console, but it did not appear in my inventory.

[Eric_]

[the shotgun blast] cannot be dodged

Yeah it can. You can actually duck right before the shotgunner shoots and avoid it. It's saved me countless times at point-blank range.

In fact, I've noticed that the zombies in HD are actually worse shots up close than they are at range. I've been repeatedly hit by zombiemen so far away I can barely see them, but up close I've seen them miss multiple times in a row.

[twinkieman93]

What difficulty are you playing on? I've never had a shotgunner one shot me, so long as I had even a little bit of armor and time to patch up afterwards(and if you're playing smart, you will have time to duck behind cover and patch yourself up). I mean, I've actually been killed by that "silly" kick, he did it after shooting me point-blank in the face. Yes, really, I didn't immediately die. Sure, I had three full layers of armor, but still.

You know... it's totally okay to turn the difficulty down. No one will think less of you for it, and if they do, they're an asshole and you shouldn't listen to them anyways. For reference, "Grotesque" is normal, last time I checked. That's what I usually play on.

Or just stop playing as Doomed Guy, he's basically a joke class anyways.

[HexaDoken]

I play on Hideous, as evidienced by the first video. The second video's scenes that appear after I beat map06 show quite a bunch of times where I got downright oneshotted by a shotgay.

Even if they don't immediately kill me outright, they are still much more dangerous than any of the basic type monster so far have been.

There is, in fact one person who will think less of me for turning the difficulty down. That person's name is HexaDoken, and you're right - he is a total asshole. Can't stop listening to him though.

Hideous is definitely no cakewalk, and I die a lot while recording, which sometimes leads to me attempting to throw my keyboard out of the window(thankfully after playing Super Meat Boy I now nail it down to the table), but on the other hand, there is much, much more satisfaction when I finally get to the damn exit switch. Overall, pays off IMO, so that's why I stick to Hideous.

Plus bragging rights! Don't forget about those.

Class selection doesn't really matter in long-term since the only thing it does is determine your start weapon. Doomed Guy didn't really do anything other than making Entryway much harder than it should normally be - by the time I reached Underhalls, I already was carrying two primary weapons, an armor vest and a respectable supply of medicaments. So yeah.

[Somagu]

Don't forget the Derp. Also, I get oneshot by shotgunners alllll the time on Hideous. Especially SSGs. With multiple layers of armor. So it's definitely a thing that happens.
I think nothing less of others who don't do so, but I refuse to acknowledge the existence of anything below UV-equivalents~♫

Also, as an aside, shotgunners are much, much worse when you're playing with +200~ms ping. Actually, everything is.

[Matt]

1) The HEAT round icon on the HUD is displaced - it doesn't appear near it's number, but instead at the very top of the screen a tiniest bit of it can be seen.
2) I picked up a DERP and saw it's pickup message in console, but it did not appear in my inventory.

Unable to replicate either. Screenshot for 1?

Yes, the zombies do aim better when you're further out, if you look at the code it's deliberately set up so the zombies (and marines if I recall) take faster, wilder spaz shots against an enemy that's up close, but take more care and hit stationary targets more often at a distance.

Re OP: Not much I could do, besides maybe swap out a few sarges for zeds. I really want to have them use the same weapon as the player in all respects that could be modeled. Nerfing sarges = nerfing shotties, which has bad effects. They're already much more conservative in their shots than zeds, if that's anything.

I should note that, IIRC, a zombieman can "one" shot you with a 3-round salvo.

...and that I pretty much only ever play on medium. >_>

[HexaDoken]

The first issue is evidienced in the video(bit harder to see due to youtube butchering but possible). The first time I check my inventory in second video is around 0:32. I play on 1366x768 with hud scaling on.

The second issue happened on MAP07 - when I walked over the ridiculous pile of items that is known as 07's Pile O Backpacks my console registered a pickup message for DERP bot, however, doing a quick scroll through my inventory I didn't find any(but there were two med stations). Using printinv didn't reveal any DERP related things in my inventory either.

I don't really remember last time zombies oneshotted me even with 3 round salvo, providing I'm in good health and at least have SOME sort of protection. There were times when I would bleed out before being able to patch myself up(sometimes bleeding out three seconds AFTER I take a medkit), but I was never killed outright.

[twinkieman93]

Yes, the zombies do aim better when you're further out, if you look at the code it's deliberately set up so the zombies (and marines if I recall) take faster, wilder spaz shots against an enemy that's up close, but take more care and hit stationary targets more often at a distance.

Wow, you really did level the playing field, huh? That's exactly how I(and I imagine most players) react to an enemy being in my bubble. "shoot it shoot it oh god plz no"

On a slightly related side note, if you want to experience tension, I've found one particularly good spot for it. The labyrinthine server room in Doom's E1M2, with its lurking undead and malfunctioning lighting, is a goddamn nightmare. I should just peer into the pulsing and flickering darkness, go "nope", and leave. The thing is, as we all know, there's loads of ammo in there, and the first available chainsaw(not important, but hey, I like a full armory) is hidden in there. So you have to go. It's never actually killed me(it's come close) but it still makes me cringe when I consider going in there.

It does help to camp the entrance with a vulcanette for a bit before going in with your weapon of choice(I like using a rifle, but I imagine a lot of dudes like the shotguns for that sort of thing) for clean-up, but still.

[Matt]

Oh, THAT sprite! Fixed for next release.

Looking at the code I think i see the problem - I'm surprised no one's reported a crash long ago! Fixed for next release as well.

Just saw entirety of vid and commentary.
- To make them more like both the Army of the Dead and the blursphere, the ghosts only do nominal 1-point damage. Their power is in drawing aggro from monsters that then get frightened into a rout. I am almost certain you would not have survived Map07 without them.
- Nice job, btw, getting into position before killing the last manc. I suspect a lot of people just try to kill them as fast as possible without planning out the next step.
- the rifle also has a semiauto setting if you want to use it. :V

Wow, you really did level the playing field, huh? That's exactly how I(and I imagine most players) react to an enemy being in my bubble. "shoot it shoot it oh god plz no"

It was modeled after my own behaviour, of course.

As for E1M2, I never really found it quite that scary, but a lot of that is due to sounds basically passing through walls with impunity such that you know exactly where the actor that played DSPOSACT is relative to you. If the engine had more realistic sound echoing and misdirecting the player... dang. (that and I camp and saturate the long hall with explosives from the relative safety of the nukage room for a few minutes before going in >_>)

[HexaDoken]

- To make them more like both the Army of the Dead and the blursphere, the ghosts only do nominal 1-point damage. Their power is in drawing aggro from monsters that then get frightened into a rout. I am almost certain you would not have survived Map07 without them.

Well, I've figured out as much. I certainly remember them actually being able to kill things though. Guess this disqualifies them from the status of "the most powerful attack" I've given then in some previous commentary, huh.

The thing is that the Liberator weapon sounds suggest that they are shooting rather powerful weapons at the enemies, and it's very weird to instead see them just... shooting endlessely at them. It's as if they fire blanks. Maybe giving them some ghostly weapon thing or something could help to show that "no this is not a room cleaner".

- Nice job, btw, getting into position before killing the last manc. I suspect a lot of people just try to kill them as fast as possible without planning out the next step.

The first time I played I've actually made this very mistake, although I've managed to recover by quick thinking and sprinting towards the megasphere.

- the rifle also has a semiauto setting if you want to use it. :V

but-but-but-how do i kill things with it then

I can control my firing on full auto more or less fine, it's just that single bullets usually fail to accomplish much and multiple bullets usually succeed in accomplishing the destruction of both the enemy and my ammo supplies


Meanwhile, the DERP is definitely broken. There was another one that I grabbed and didn't find in my inventory afterwards.

On another note, oh holy jesus christ dog heaven god damned MAP08

Barons of hell are very seriously op.

Though what's most interesting about it is that when it comes to simply beating it, it's easily the most trivial map in the entire game so far.

Beat it with 100% kills? You might as well ask me to cure cancer while at it.