Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b

[Abba Zabba]

It's been some time since I questioned this mechanic, and I don't remember if I've asked. With the option to switch up rifles, what's the point exactly? Any gl-mounted rifle seems to behave and handle the same as one without it, and I don't see the point of ever switching back to a semi-auto only rifle, unless it jams less often or you want to see that funny message. It just seems odd having this option that doesn't seem to do much, but that's just me. Having zombiemen revived constantly in one spot makes this ugly mess of leftover gray pixels. Oh, and a bug with the switch system: holding a semi-auto only rifle and switching to a gl-mounted or a select fire rifle will not drop the semi-auto only rifle, it will simply disappear.

[Matt]

That last effect was intentional, as a last-ditch effort to mitigate the mess of leftover grey pixels problem.

(Also, zombiemen (and each stage of marine) should only drop a gun the first time they're killed. If you try this with a healer imp and a zombieman and no onoe else present, you should see that the zed only drops one rifle, and the rest of the time it may occasionally drop a pistol or ZM66 mag but never another rifle.)

[Abba Zabba]

But do the rifles share any differences in performance? It just seems to be

Semi ---> Select ---> GL

[twinkieman93]

Besides the fact that you have to hit a different button to activate the scope on the GL-attached version? No, not that I can see.

Maybe make the select-fire version more prone to jamming due to more complicated mechanisms in the weapon(No, I don't know if that could ever cause problems in an actual weapon, but what else could that do? Besides, the ZM66 isn't an actual weapon, so I'm not sure reality should enter into it that much.), and the GL version have more weight in regards to the turning momentum/time taken to begin sprinting, in addition to the increased jamming. So, you know, there'd be a reason to choose one rifle over another. While you add advantages, you should also add disadvantages. That's basic balancing logic.

[Matt]

There's actually already a difference:

Code: Select all

		case 23:
			maxturn=2000; speedmod=-0.06;
			turnpitchmomentum[PlayerNumber()]=turnpitchmomentum[PlayerNumber()]*3/4;
			turnanglemomentum[PlayerNumber()]=turnanglemomentum[PlayerNumber()]*3/4; break;
		case 22:
		case 21:
			maxturn=2450; speedmod=-0.04; 
			turnpitchmomentum[PlayerNumber()]=turnpitchmomentum[PlayerNumber()]*2/3;
			turnanglemomentum[PlayerNumber()]=turnanglemomentum[PlayerNumber()]*2/3; break;

I personally can feel it, though I am looking for it.

EDIT: That said, right now there is no reason at all to use the semi over the auto assuming neither has the GL. I may consider the jamming thing.

EDIT2: This NEW UPDATE! now increases jamming for the select-fire ZM66.

[Jack Mackerel]

balancing logic.

Hideous Destructor

Uh...

Honestly, there shouldn't be much of a difference. I don't think slapping an M203 onto an M4 makes it awkward in real life, and putting select fire on a rifle isn't very complex.

There's already flavor text for the ZM66 making it out to be some top-of-the-line infantry weapon, but yeah, yeah, getting weird about story in DooM is pointless.

[twinkieman93]

balancing logic.

Hideous Destructor

Uh...

Honestly, there shouldn't be much of a difference. I don't think slapping an M203 onto an M4 makes it awkward in real life, and putting select fire on a rifle isn't very complex.

There's already flavor text for the ZM66 making it out to be some top-of-the-line infantry weapon, but yeah, yeah, getting weird about story in DooM is pointless.

I think I addressed this before, but there is a balance in this mod. It's just skewed towards being as difficult as possible without being completely impossible. Having players make an actual choice between one rifle over the others should be part of that, rather than saying "oh, I found the GL-mounted one, time to ignore other rifles for the rest of the game!".

[Somagu]

Honestly, there shouldn't be much of a difference. I don't think slapping an M203 onto an M4 makes it awkward in real life, and putting select fire on a rifle isn't very complex.

Not awkward, no, but there is a noticeable difference in weight and handling, particularly if you're used to the weapon with/without.

I also don't know what you guys are going on about with HD not being balanced. The balance is some of the best I've seen in any doom wad. Every monster is an appropriate threat, and none of the weapons are useless. That in and of itself is an amazing accomplishment.

[Untitled]

Honestly, there shouldn't be much of a difference. I don't think slapping an M203 onto an M4 makes it awkward in real life, and putting select fire on a rifle isn't very complex.

Not awkward, no, but there is a noticeable difference in weight and handling, particularly if you're used to the weapon with/without.

I also don't know what you guys are going on about with HD not being balanced. The balance is some of the best I've seen in any doom wad. Every monster is an appropriate threat, and none of the weapons are useless. That in and of itself is an amazing accomplishment.

Yeah, but the problem with HD is that some monsters /should/ be useless by design - There's not much you can do if a map author decides to throw, say, 3 dozen imps at you if the IMPS are capable of murdering you.

I'll be blunt honest; I can't get through ANY entire megawad yet. Gotten through chunks of a few of the easier maps here and there, but that's it. Even Doom 2 gives you a couple situations like, say, the MAP16 keycard trap (which is 36 imps, 16 cacodemons, and 12 mancubi). I still haven't found a way to beat MAP07.

[Somagu]

You're absolutely right--there's not much you can do, really.

So play a different megawad, or skip the level. HD isn't really designed to play nice with anything that can be considered over an intermediate skill level. Maybe you should make that disclaimer a little bit bigger, Vae?

[HexaDoken]

But- but- but-

But map16 is really easy!

Just grab the key and run really fast. Victory.

Map07 is quite easy too. First, you use the chinagun to quickly dispose of the two mancubi on the land, then rocket spam the rest four.

Arachnotron part is kinda difficult to survive without being surrounded, so you shrug, sigh, bite your finger, slam your palm into the ground, shout some obscenities, and summon backup.

Then you go in the opposite direction from the backup, chinagun blazing. Your goal is to reach the outer circle and cut through any arachnotrons you encounter.

Determine the position you're least likely to get ambushed, regroup, then slowly go around killing things from RL.

Win.


There ARE indeed unwinnable scenarios(eviltech map11 comes to mind because you are teleported RIGHT IN A CYBERDEMON'S FACE), but the beauty of HD is that it tends to generate situations which seem to be utterly unfair and impossible at first, but, if you spend time thinking, you most likely WILL find some clever way to get it done against all the odds. Somehow.

Also do remember that lower skill levels exist.

[Big C]

Honestly I think Hideous Destructor tends to go best with OBLIGE maps with low-mid monster counts.

Less gimmicky trap-based maps and more gauntlet-full-of-corners-and-boxes-for-cover maps.

(Downside: The starts of the levels tend to be brutal due to often starting off surrounded.)

[Abba Zabba]

The trap bit is the one thing about HD I could never get into. Some traps had the monsters too close/distance to safety or cover unreachable for the player's abilities. If the Derp could be remote controlled and capable of setting off linedefs meant for players, I could see it greatly ameliorating the trap problem.

Maybe you should make that disclaimer a little bit bigger, Vae?

Ha, reminds me of the Resident Evil disclaimers that popped up when you started the game. "This game contains scenes of explicit violence and gore."

[Somagu]

Honestly I think Hideous Destructor tends to go best with OBLIGE maps with low-mid monster counts.

Which version do you use? I tried a few megawads with some more recent versions and all I got for my trouble was starts with dozens of crack-shot former humans from across the map.

[Big C]

Honestly I think Hideous Destructor tends to go best with OBLIGE maps with low-mid monster counts.

Which version do you use? I tried a few megawads with some more recent versions and all I got for my trouble was starts with dozens of crack-shot former humans from across the map.

Latest one, generally. I always try to generate it with a lot of cover, when possible.