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edward850 wrote:

Monsterovich wrote:using numbers as "negative tags", without "pain-in-ass" (seriously) tag marking

You can't use negative tags. They are already used for tagging lines/things and sectors as per normal. You can't just change the rules already in place, breaking a selection of mods, just because you want something else.

In fact, nobody cares about 0,01% of mods, which uses "negative tags" as tags. Map editors have never used them at all (because -1 = 65535 may be), it's not a problem to make another compatflag for that.

edward850 wrote:You are going to have to explain this. A programmer doesn't like useless and uninformed implementations of features? Where the hell do I sign up?

Graf is not an actual ZDoom developer, but Randy is.

Monsterovich wrote:nobody cares about 0,01% of mods

Well hey, now that we've established this, no one cares for your change that will affect your mod only.

How does it feel?

@Monsterovich:

Can you provide even one legitimate use case for this feature?
I bet you can't - because without detailed knowledge of the current map there's absolutely nothing you can do to it.

Monsterovich wrote:In fact, nobody cares about 0,01% of mods, which uses "negative tags" as tags. Map editors have never used them at all (because -1 = 65535 may be), it's not a problem to make another compatflag for that.

Monsterovich wrote:Graf is not an actual ZDoom developer, but Randy is.

Next you are going to tell me that my opinion is useless because while I only focus on multiplayer support, I'm not a developer. Or Xaser is unimportant because he only improved the Railgun and not listed as a developer.
If you think an actual listed developer is meaningless, I wonder what that makes everyone else in your view?

Graf Zahl wrote:@Monsterovich:
Can you provide even one legitimate use case for this feature?

Korshun provided few easiest examples, which uses "negative tags".

Spoiler:

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Graf Zahl wrote: I bet you can't - because without detailed knowledge of the current map there's absolutely nothing you can do to it.

You: I'm author of GZDoom! I'm better than you! Do not suggest features, which I don't like!

Monsterovich wrote:You: I'm author of GZDoom! I'm better than you! Do not suggest features, which I don't like!

Yes. He is an author of ZDoom. That's why his name is pink. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Monsterovich wrote:I provided easiest examples, which uses "negative tags". Are you tested them?

You ignored my whole "You can't replace pre-existing features" point, didn't you?

That kind of attitude isn't going to get you anywhere if you want even legitimate features to be implemented, Monsterovich.

edward850 wrote:

Monsterovich wrote:You: I'm author of GZDoom! I'm better than you! Do not suggest features, which I don't like!

Yes. He is an author of ZDoom. That's why his name is pink. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Then, he is not author of ZDoom, he just made OpenGL features for it.

edward850 wrote:You ignored my whole "You can't replace pre-existing features" point, didn't you?

In present, almost no one uses "negative tags" in acs.

Alright, I'll play a bit more here then. If you're going to ignore the fact that the Doom Builder editor you've brought up in this thread can tag ranges, then let's go through the original examples one by one.

Korshun wrote:

• ACS gamemodes that grealy modify ANY MAP. Previously, it was possible to apply only one modification to the majority of sectors because they were all tagged 0. Now any sector can be modified individually.

You know what would be cleaner here? A script that activates once for each sector. Like a new SECTORINIT script type. And then you could get the sector's tag, and if it's zero then you can set it to any unused tag. Say, for example, starting at the minimum value (0x80000000 for 32 bit - chop off the 4 extra zeros if it has to be 16 bit) and checking if that tag is taken and then assigning if it is not.

This is not at all dissimilar to what some scripts (such as my smooth third person camera) does with actors on a ENTER script. Yes, negative tags are used elsewhere.

Korshun wrote:

• Complex scripting effects are now a lot easier and don't require a lot of different tags. Want a huge city map with a lot of lit sectors (with different light levels) that can turn on/off? Tag them with ONE tag, then in the ACS iterate over all sectors, check if they have that tag, collect the list of such sectors. When switching the lights off, save their lightlevels. And when turning them back on, restore their light levels individually.

You know what would be nicer here? If sectors could have UDMF user variables like actors can. Oh wait, they kinda already can! If only someone would suggest a SetSectorUDMFInt so that you could cache light levels in your own custom field and then use the pre-existing tag functions to work on them...

Korshun wrote:

• Just for fun: weapon that edit heights/lightlevels/colors/fog of ANY sector. Just like Sectorcraft but on ANY map!

Oh, that sounds like it should be possible with the less-breaking-changes I suggested.

Monsterovich wrote:Then, he is not author of ZDoom, he just made OpenGL features for it.

Hi. You must have been born yesterday.

Monsterovich wrote:In present, almost no one uses "negative tags" in acs.

You do realise that if it wasn't for map compatibility, there wouldn't be negative tags at all? So it's either map compatibility and no negative tags for you to use, or we say fuck it and change them to unsigned values (which is what we tried to do before), to which you will STILL have no negative values to use. So you are kinda boned both ways.

The idea of having gameplay mods that mess around with lines and sectors in maps which weren't specifically designed for them sounds like a recipe for undefined behaviors and game-breaking bugs.

You always will find a reason to do nothing. But, no one suggested another good way to get access to individual sectors/lines through ACS. It's very sad. D:

No one suggested a compelling reason to completely fuck with established systems in the way you suggest.

Plenty of alternatives were suggested though.

Monsterovich : I have a better idea, how you go fork ZDoom yourself, and let us know how it goes.

Monsterovich wrote:You always will find a reason to do nothing. But, no one suggested another good way to get access to individual sectors/lines through ACS. It's very sad. D:

Why would anyone? Without detailed knowledge of the map such access is utterly useless.
And you still haven't provided a legitimate example!

Monsterovich wrote: Then, he is not author of ZDoom, he just made OpenGL features for it.

I strongly suggest to check out the changelog over the last 8 years (and where do you think, DECRORATE comes from?)

Also last warning: One more post of this kind and I'll close this thread.