[Community Project] 20 Monsters Challenge [RELEASED!]

[Graf Zahl]

How about putting it on /idgames? Then you'll eventually get a review on Doomworld and a wider audience outside the forum readers.

[Accensus]

I thought about doing so, but unfortunately we have some .ogg files and /idgames is against those. The next community project will be properly formated and idgames-friendly.

[wildweasel]

I thought about doing so, but unfortunately we have some .ogg files and /idgames is against those. The next community project will be properly formated and idgames-friendly.

Not strictly against them (RTC-3057 uses them, for example), but absolutely against OGGs or MP3s of commercial music.

[Graf Zahl]

Why should they have something against a sound format? That's really just a common misconception. If you or some team member made them yourselves they are absolutely no problem at all. There's countless mods with digital music formats on /idgames.

The rule they have is, as WW said, 'no commercial music' (and there's even countless mods violating that one, which of course you should not do.)

[Accensus]

That's the issue. I'm not sure if the music is commercial or not. Some is taken from TheModArchive, others from unknown places. I'd rather not risk it with this one. I said it once that this project is a massive development fail due to the dynamic change of rules and the whole project's goal itself. The team and I are certainly planning the next project very, very carefully and will have the rules set in stone, including the music rules.

[leodoom85]

A thing that happened to me. I uploaded the entire playthrough of this megawad and for the music in map 12, Youtube put me a copyright mark in that video.

[wildweasel]

As long as there's no Star Wars soundtracks or Billboard Top 20 hits in there, you're probably going to be okay.

[leodoom85]

The music in question was similar to this: We Ain't Goin' Out Like That - Cypress Hill and that's why Youtube put a copyright. This is the second time that it happens and of course, I don't even care to monetize my videos...

[Accensus]

Youtube just sucks in that aspect tbqh.

[leodoom85]

Youtube...what happened to you...? You were cool back then... :'(
Well, nothing that we can do about it. Keep playing and uploading it is...

[The Ultimate DooMer]

I quite enjoyed this...the concept was a bit too limiting (having 20 stock monsters of any type would've been better IMO) but it was executed quite nicely in many places. Many maps were a bit too simple, but others were quite clever too (particularly that blue/red space station with the caged cacos and some of the hell maps). It could've been cleverer still if the maps didn't blindly follow pistol->shotgun->chaingun->heavy weapon progression...imagine something like chainsaw/berserk, pistol or rockets only gameplay etc. (that would be the sort of thing that a big limitation such as this would generate for fear of looking too generic)

How about putting it on /idgames? Then you'll eventually get a review on Doomworld and a wider audience outside the forum readers.

Don't think that will matter too much, given that the project has the typical DW response to ZDoom stuff, ie. a small handful of posts and a bunch of nitpicks that would never apply if the same wad was vanilla. (if it had been, then you could guarantee several pages of comments like "another great limitation wad", "a series of bite-sized maps that wouldn't look out of place in Scythe 1" or "the mighty Erik would approve of this wad" as well as a caco nomination or two)

The main reason it needs to be on /idgames is simply for having multiple backup copies spread across the globe-spanning mirror servers.

I thought about doing so, but unfortunately we have some .ogg files and /idgames is against those. The next community project will be properly formated and idgames-friendly.

Oggs are not illegal on /idgames (I used them in some of my mods), what you're probably seeing is the reluctance to accept ogg music due to filesize. But anything to do with that can be queried with the maintainers, if you let them know in advance (as you have to do with any project over 50 megs) it should be fine.

[Accensus]

I quite enjoyed this...the concept was a bit too limiting (having 20 stock monsters of any type would've been better IMO) but it was executed quite nicely in many places. Many maps were a bit too simple, but others were quite clever too (particularly that blue/red space station with the caged cacos and some of the hell maps). It could've been cleverer still if the maps didn't blindly follow pistol->shotgun->chaingun->heavy weapon progression...imagine something like chainsaw/berserk, pistol or rockets only gameplay etc. (that would be the sort of thing that a big limitation such as this would generate for fear of looking too generic)

Definitely would have been better with more than 20 monsters. Damn, I shouldn't have deleted the context. Gonna go and update the OP with why this project is limited in such way. Thanks for the comment!

Don't think that will matter too much, given that the project has the typical DW response to ZDoom stuff, ie. a small handful of posts and a bunch of nitpicks that would never apply if the same wad was vanilla. (if it had been, then you could guarantee several pages of comments like "another great limitation wad", "a series of bite-sized maps that wouldn't look out of place in Scythe 1" or "the mighty Erik would approve of this wad" as well as a caco nomination or two)

The main reason it needs to be on /idgames is simply for having multiple backup copies spread across the globe-spanning mirror servers.

This point is far too true to simply neglect. This is one of the main reasons I avoid posting anything on Doomworld. Newcomers get bashed 80% of the time and some of the comments are so useless and/or toxic that they make you wish you never posted there in the first place. Y'all gonna need a really good reason to make me post any project of mine on DW.

[Accensus]

After a short discussion over at Discord, I have been given the idea (credits: Jimmy) to make a top 5 poll, except it's not actually a poll. It's a ranking.

The ranking is for "Top 5 Best Maps", "Top 5 Worst Maps" and "Top 3 Goofiest Maps". The last is for maps that aren't actually your everyday Doom runnery-n-gunnery, but more like stuff that makes you stop and lol. I'd love to hear your opinions on why each map is good/bad. Any feedback is welcome, be it good or bad, as long as it's somewhat constructive or at least not plain offensive.

[leodoom85]

This is a huge ranking, sort of. So, here I go... This is my humble opinion for this.

The 5 best: (this is not in order, btw)

Map 10 by Mor'ladim and Map 28 by Voltcom9, both maps have great atmosphere and great use of dark sectors as well as the textures used for it. And the music used really fits the mood of the map.
Map 04 by Nevander, great use of colored lighting, like a Doom 64 map, really fun to play, upbeat music and rainbow stairs .
Map 15 by Tapwave, another map with good lighting. Clever use of static and pulse lights for more ambiance. And the way to unlock the secret level is well hidden and executed.
Map 40, a fitting end for the megawad. Stressful, creepy (in the beginning) and hard. And I haven't forgot the jumpscare .

Now, the 5 worst maps...again in no order...oh boy.

Map 24 by Luigi2600. That's for known reasons (plagiarism)
Map 19 by UnTrustable. The zero gravity room gives some minus points (4 stealth cacos?), but the same author made map 22 and that map was much better for a huge amount of 3D sectors plus how the map was made and called.
Map 17 by NAG. Visually, this map is awesome but sadly it's not well balanced in terms of gameplay. This is easily the hardest map of this megawad.
Map 9 by Kinsie. I know, Kinsie makes great maps, like in Dump 3, but I feel that this one was kinda rushed. And the last part of this map is unforgiving if you don't know what to do.
Map 26 by Deviluke Roy/unRyker. I'll say that this map is ok, however, this map could have been improved further in some sections of the map in my opinion.

NOW, the 3 goofiest, weirdest maps EVER!!!
The 2 secret levels, maps 41 and 42, made by Zero X.Diamond are easily in this list. Map 41 for the way to unlock map 42 (punching HItler 42 times!?...) and map 42 for the goofiest but awesome Wipeout style way to defeat the big boss and the music makes even more awesome.
The other map remaining is map 35 by FishyClockwork. This map takes the weird word to another level. Puzzles, the final encounter, parkour, avoiding the crushers, the wacky space-hell theme. This map is GREAT for thinking that you're in another crazy dimension and it works.

Bonus section:
Maps with easter eggs like map 14 (fishy....hmm), map 25 (Clever name and tribute), map 38 (the way to unlock it) as well as some first-time maps like map 29 by Crazi Toni or map 03 by Caligari87 and some ingenious ways to progress the map like map 39 by lwks (turning the map upside down and viceversa) and map 06 by Jimmy and the polarity mechanic and also an arena replacement for map 07 as well for the final map...all mappers deserves the recognition for making an excellent project. And remember, I was the first one who submitted a map, only to grow stronger and stronger...

[Voltcom9]

5 of my personal favourites in no particular order
- Underglow by Nevander (this map was just so fun to play and the colourful ambience was really neat and high tempo music fit very well)
- Abandoned Depot by Mor'Ladim (this was just such a creepy and atmospheric map. It legitimately sent chills up my spine)
- Treacherous Library by FishyClockwork (I have never seen anyone implement traps such as these before in such a clever and unique way)
- the Wicked Sepulchre by Zero X.Diamond (this was perhaps the most realistic descent into Hell I've ever seen in a doom2 map, ever)
- Cratered by Tapwave (this really felt like playing some sort of stealth mission which I thought was an absolute blast)

5 not as awesome maps
- the Entrance by Isaacpop23 (this map was fun to play but it felt a little under detailed at the start area)
- Crimes by Kinsie (this map made me want to throw my computer out the window in frustration)
- Doom Ja Vu by Luigi1600 (I enjoyed the map but the fact that it contains plagiarised content puts it on this list)
- Jigoku by Tapwave (I appreciate the aesthetics of this map but I died many times trying to figure out how to get out of that strange lava hell area, which I got extremely irritated with. Aside from that I definitely appreciate the map for what it is but the puzzle part drove me insane.)
- Ambush Facility by Little Devil (Well the name certainly does it justice but damn that barrel trap and the imp teleport at the exit are maddening)

3 goofiest
- Woeful Hills by UnRyker (I loved this map partly because the end results in you collecting the best power ups in the game only to get stuck in an inescapable crushing ceiling which prolongs the player to wait around until finally being crushed to death, it's like Trolling the player on exit X-)
- Up by Untrustable (this map was really fun to play. I liked the silly concept of climbing ladders and especially liked the part at the end where the water raised)
- 2 Minutes to Midnight by Zero X.Diamond (I've never seen anything this crazy done in Doom before)

Honestly though, I really loved playing through this entire project. All of the maps were well done IMO and the project was fun from start to finish. Good work to all mappers involved!