[WIP] Sneaky Doom - New A.I.!

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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby Josh771 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:55 pm

TheMightyHeracross wrote:Thing_Hate?

If this causes a monster to actually attack the thing (as the wiki suggests) then it's just not a valid option for me. I want a monster to walk to a position, not to necessarily shoot at it. If I can get that functionality, I can make monsters go to the last place they saw the player, the last place the player fired a loud weapon, or to the sight of a bullet impact or thrown object. If my only options involve zombiemen shooting walls, I'd rather not. I haven't fully investigated all my options just yet; Thing_SetGoal might be more promising, if I can spawn PatrolPoints and clean them up afterwards effectively.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby Endless123 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:52 pm

My mod currently reduces the player's alpha (opaqueness) based on his stealth indicator. Have you stepped into any particularly dark spots and looked at yourself with the chasecam? I don't know if this works completely in ZDoom (untested) but in GZDoom you should be turning nearly invisible in very dark places. Are you running the latest SVN GZDoom? Not sure why that wouldn't be working
.

I'm using gzdoom-G1.9pre-691-g0cb1547 (a fairly recent one) The fact i haven't noticed the alpha changing is probably because of my gameplay style. In fact, i'm not used to use dark areas and shadows in Doom since your mod is the first one i ever played that allowing the player to take advantage of dark areas. I'll be testing mods more intensively soon. Right now i'm a bit busy with my own mod because of something new i'm trying to add but(surprise :P) that don't work :lol: But lets return to the topic that is your mod - a very good one by the way :)

As to the stealth modes, that would add a high level of complexity that I'm currently not ready to add. The reason walking is so slow is because the amount of sound you produce (as well as your visibility) is tied directly to your movement speed. Short bursts of running are fairly safe in the right situations, but prolonged running will make a lot of noise and make you easier to see.


Understandable, too much complexity can sometimes lead to big headaches specially with the bug fixing part. Besides, as i said in a previous post it's just a suggestion and not an obligation so keeping it the way it is now is good, remember, it's your mod and only you can decide what to do with it and i must say you did a really good job so far that's why i'm not worry about this mod's future :)

Throwing things would be a fantastic addition; I'd already wanted to add this, but I haven't looked into making the monsters investigate a specific area. If I learn how to do that, I'll be adding a bit more than just throwing things... heheh. :)


I think the monster's default reaction to sounds is to go directly toward the player as if it has a radar or something pointing right at the player - which is an unrealistic way to react but it might be complicated to modify that behavior but maybe adding a sound in the death state of the projectile could be a good alert-trigger but the tricky part would be to make the monster be alerted by the sound produced at the location of the thrown object ended instead of instantly going where the player is located. I hope somebody knows how to do that though.

EDIT : I've played your mod on Kontra's map(Starship Konrad) and i noticed the alpha level changing below 50, above 50 the alpha seems to be set to 1. But i can confirm it works well so well done :)
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby sycspysycspy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:59 pm

What is going to be added next? A sniper maybe? Plus thermal vision yeah!
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby sycspysycspy » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:09 am

I think there is a faulty with the pistol, I read through you code, every time it done firing it alertMonster(384). I think this should not be there

@Captain J got it boss :D
Last edited by sycspysycspy on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby Captain J » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:08 am

sniper rifle with silencer, that's would be cool. anyway welcome to the forum. and i'd love to see your next post if you're going to post the less double or multiful posts.
you can use the edit button to add a additional words or works.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby Josh771 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:09 am

sycspysycspy wrote:I think there is a faulty with the pistol, I read through you code, every time it done firing it alertMonster(384). I think this should not be there

The silenced pistol is not completely silent. It has a very quiet report which attenuates fairly quickly; the A_AlertMonster(384) causes monsters to recognize that sound if they're close enough. The game would be a little too easy if I made the gun completely quiet.

I wouldn't mind adding a sniper rifle. I might look into that in the near future, along with trying to get monsters to investigate areas.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby sycspysycspy » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:59 pm

SidDoyle wrote:
sycspysycspy wrote:I think there is a faulty with the pistol, I read through you code, every time it done firing it alertMonster(384). I think this should not be there

The silenced pistol is not completely silent. It has a very quiet report which attenuates fairly quickly; the A_AlertMonster(384) causes monsters to recognize that sound if they're close enough. The game would be a little too easy if I made the gun completely quiet.

I wouldn't mind adding a sniper rifle. I might look into that in the near future, along with trying to get monsters to investigate areas.

Firstly, I love you mod a lot, and I have spend quite sometime playing your mod. But I have a few problems I want to address:
1. I assume the 384 is a range, maybe it's a bit too much for A_AlertMonster? In doom2 lv2 my pistol shot at the starting area even alert the enemies around the red key(maybe I did something else?). It's too easy for enemy to be aware of the player's where about and make it hard(especially in the open) to make use of the 10 times preemptive damage multiplier(unaware shot).
2. The enemies do not have "memory" when I hid behind a cover I came out and take a shot then they were aware of me(lose the damage multiplier) then I hid back to the cover(lose line of sight with them) and came out again, they don't know where I was(regain the damage muliplier). The whole thing happened within 1 seconds.
I would suggest something:
1. Lower the alert range for pistol
2. Make the enemies into a "Panic" stat when there is someone shot or bullet landed nearby.
"Panic" enemy will have 3 kind of behaviors:
1) hiding/take cover no matter if they heard the gunshot - coward
2) search specific area when they heard the gunshot, they may also shoot randomly(times and direction) around the player's last firing location but not the player if the player is still remain in the shadow(in another word "out of the detecting range") - brave and have focus/objective
3) search random nearby location when the gunshot is not heard - brave and no focus/Objective

3. "Panic" enemies should also take extra damage
If the enemies are going to search some location, the shot must be outside the specific area to gain the damage bonus
4. Make the covers less efficient by implementing a cool down or something when the player is out of sight, the monsters don't lose the awareness immediately.
5. So the enemy should have 4 stats:
Not alerted(stand still or patrol on a fixed path)
Alerted - Offensive(Panic and start focused or random search should gain detection buff in this stat)
Alerted - Defensive(Panic and start camping)
Discovered (The player is totally exposed to them,they will be chasing and shooting, should also consider to add a detection buff to this stat, when the player disappears they will focus on the last location found until the player expose himself.)
6. Make the night goggle able to indicate the enemy's stat, if Not alerted show a green frame around the enemy or the make the enemy glow in green if the enemies are alerted Camping or not search the player's area indicate as yellow. If they are doing search and the player is inside the searching area, they are indicated as orange. If they have discovered the player they are indicated as red. In summary Green and Yellow enemies should be applied with the damage multiplier.

Hope you can make this mod the mod of the year. Keep up with the good work.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby Josh771 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:35 pm

Those are a lot of fantastic suggestions, and if I were programming this thing from scratch, I might as well dump all that and more into the project. As it is, what you're suggesting would take the equivalent workload of recreating my mod 10 times at least. I have to play by ZDoom's rules, so it's not always particularly feasible.

That having been said, these ideas are all valid for stealth gameplay, some of them staples of the genre. :) If any of this happens within the next month, it would probably be something like increased cooldowns for searches and AI tweaks. It will take a lot of work getting ZDoom to cooperate with me to get monsters to investigate areas -- even more so if I want them to crack shots or take cover. I'm not even sure if that's possible.

Bottom line, I'm adjusting the functionality of ZDoom as best I can to fit a stealth scenario. But I've only got what's in ZDoom's toolbox to work with. Some things are literally impossible in ZDoom, even if they'd be nice features. As a programmer, I find myself becoming tired of the limitations I encounter, but I'm not ambitious enough to make changes to ZDoom source for stealth gameplay (actually... I never considered that option, but I've heard enough horror stories to rule that out).

Thanks for the suggestions. If you familiarize yourself a little more with ZDoom's workings, you'll understand why I can't really add all of that. But I sure would like to.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Stealth Suit Added

Postby Josh771 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:31 pm

Bumping for the minor-est of updates. I've added "dark_doom_black.pk3" to Dark Doom, giving you the option of playing in pitch black darkness. It's not really suited to Sneaky Doom, unless you like being invisible and everything being pathetically easy. Dark Doom is a sort of mini-mod, though. It can be played with almost anything else.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Dark Doom updated

Postby Naitguolf » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:05 am

Ey thank you SidDoyle :)

What do you mean about turning the mod into a scary mod? Pitch black, with only lantern and brithmaps make the game like a very different one! Adding atmospheric stuff, like dynamic fog, random rain, or water and then random sounds (maybe spawn an invisible actor with some sounds moving randomly then disappear)

EDIT: Playing e1, enjoying a lot of PSX doom sountrack, maybe outdoors should have a little more light. Could be possible to you to make an option in-game to tweak it?
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Dark Doom updated

Postby Josh771 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:57 pm

Dark Doom is really only designed to tweak light levels, and it will never feature major game changing effects like lanterns or atmospheric effects. However, your suggestion that the darkness be tweakable in-game is intriguing. I may look into redesigning Dark Doom to use a slider and allow players to play with just the level of darkness they desire. :)
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Dark Doom updated

Postby Naitguolf » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:14 am

SidDoyle wrote: and it will never feature major game changing effects like lanterns or atmospheric effects.


Ah, I understand. Anyway, ¡thanks for your work! :)

Well, could be a nice mod if any one can do it, we have lot of gameplay, or weapon mods. Maybe a Scary Mod but without changing gameplay? (something that DooM 3 should be and it wasnt)
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Dark Doom updated

Postby Carbine Dioxide » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:15 pm

I have been working on a stealth like doom mod myself, I only added two weapons now(Glock and AA12). I haven't really implemented the Searching aspect to the monsters yet, and didn't really know where to start. I was planning to replace 1 monster completely and replace about 5 weapons. Your mod is almost exactly how I thought mine would turn out, only with different weapons.

I have a few questions for you to answer if you don't mind.

How did you think your mod was gonna turn out? Did it turn out the way you wanted it to? If it didn't turn out the way you wanted to, what are you planning to do to make it better?
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Dark Doom updated

Postby Josh771 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:36 pm

I didn't have any big expectations when it came to my monster behaviors. I knew pretty much what ZDoom's limitations would be and decided to build my stealth system around that. However, there are certainly aspects that I've wanted to add, but I haven't been working on it for a while. The thing I'd really wanted to add was the ability to set a point that the monsters would go to before investigating. I would have used that to make them investigate the last place the player was noticed, or even let the player throw rocks to distract enemies.

I assume you've taken a look at the massive DECORATE I had to add to each monster to achieve this stealth effect. The scripted part wasn't so bad, but you're going to need to either have all the monsters inherit one stealth actor with all the appropriate states (which I don't know how feasible that really is) or you're going to have to write the stealth DECORATE for each one individually. I guess that might be why you're sticking to one monster for now -- my private "alpha" of this mod only had the zombieman implemented before I moved on to do the rest.

I'm mostly content with my mod as it is. Having made stealth in Doom a viable option, I mostly leave it to modders like yourself to take the ball and run with it. Hopefully you'll build upon what I've made and produce something really cool to play around with. :) And even if you end up making mostly just weapons and monsters for basically the same stealth system, I'd be all for it.

If you've got anything else to ask, fire away. But that probably sums up what I thought my mod would be, how it turned out, and what I'd add if I were to improve it.
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Re: [WIP] Sneaky Doom - Dark Doom updated

Postby Josh771 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:31 pm

I know it's been awhile, but I have a minor update for Sneaky Doom. I may get back into developing this, I may not. I've been taking a bit of a break from all my Doom modding for a bit; we'll see how this goes.

Anyway, this is a minor update, nothing too earth-shattering. I've created a custom colormap for the night vision goggles, closer to what -Ghost- suggested earlier.
-Ghost- wrote:And lastly, for when you do NV goggles, I suggest just doing a low black and white or greyscale view instead of the standard green NV look. That way it might be easier on the eyes since you'd be using it a lot with how dark Dark Doom makes it.

It's not exactly greyscale, but it's a softer green tone reminiscent of the Splinter Cell games' night vision effect. If I keep working on this, the next thing I might do is make health items carryable and armor pickups carryable. Then I might go back to trying to improve the stealth mechanics, because why not?
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