Brütal Doom v0.18

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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby aoshiryaev » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:42 am

Umm... Assuming rifle, chaingun and MP40 share ammo, the bullets in Doom are 9x19 Parabellum, which can have various richohet properties. I suppose the round is hollow point expanding, given it can blow off heads(which is a huge exaggeration anyway), and it has minimal ricochet capacity. Buckshot does not spin, thus it does not ricochet. It can bounce back, but not deal damage. Ricochet would be fun, if the engine had ballistic calculation of the trajectory and such. Just splash damage makes no sense.
If you dump the MP40, which is my favourite weapon btw, the rifle is most likely 5,56x45. This round has has high velocity and low weight, ricocheting a lot. Overall, shotguns DO NOT ricochet at all, and bullet-based weaponry would depend on the cartrige.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby DoomNukem » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:51 am

aoshiryaev wrote:Umm... Assuming rifle, chaingun and MP40 share ammo, the bullets in Doom are 9x19 Parabellum, which can have various richohet properties. I suppose the round is hollow point expanding, given it can blow off heads(which is a huge exaggeration anyway), and it has minimal ricochet capacity. Buckshot does not spin, thus it does not ricochet. It can bounce back, but not deal damage. Ricochet would be fun, if the engine had ballistic calculation of the trajectory and such. Just splash damage makes no sense.
If you dump the MP40, which is my favourite weapon btw, the rifle is most likely 5,56x45. This round has has high velocity and low weight, ricocheting a lot. Overall, shotguns DO NOT ricochet at all, and bullet-based weaponry would depend on the cartrige.


Doom is not realistic, nor should it be, ricochet might be fun, but I dont think it needs realistic ballistic trajectories or calibres, its doom.
what would be the point in dumping the MP40?
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby aoshiryaev » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:15 am

There is a distinct gap between not realistic and defying laws of physics. Screw ballistics, but ricocheting shotgun ammo is bullshit and I wouldn't play such a game at all. It is like ironsights - it's better to have none than have misaligned ones (like the new sprites)
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby DoomNukem » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:02 am

aoshiryaev wrote:There is a distinct gap between not realistic and defying laws of physics. Screw ballistics, but ricocheting shotgun ammo is bullshit and I wouldn't play such a game at all. It is like ironsights - it's better to have none than have misaligned ones (like the new sprites)
Sgt dumped custom Nazis altogether because of compaiblity issues.


um, the shotgun ammo doesn't ricochet? and nor can I see it suggested anywhere.

I dont want to turn this into an arguement but what distinct gap? the game is full of hell spawn and satanic imagery, things that dont exist, you were discussing the fact that the rifle, chaingun and MP40 share ammo and you even listed calibres, I do not think sgt.mark would have put that much thought into, nor should he worry about the semantics of how the bullets work.

you said "..., the rifle is most likely 5,56x45...." and " the bullets in Doom are 9x19 Parabellum"

And I'm saying, this is not mentioned anywhere, nor should it be, nobody cares what calibres ricochet and what ones dont, I think "Pistol Ammo" or "Rifle Ammo" is fine.

I dont mind the missing nazis or the mp40 however, theres plenty of other hitscan weapons to use. I like the new ironsights too, the other ones filled the screen and did nothing to serve the gameplay.

I am glad the splash damage is gone, but there doesn't need to be any sort of realism in how the shooting works, keep it simple, is it fun? yes. done.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby mumblemumble » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:51 am

aoshiryaev wrote:ricocheting shotgun ammo is bullshit and I wouldn't play such a game at all.

I think we both know even if v19 had it you would still play it. Besides, unless you ssg dirrectly into a wall point blank, the damage isn't noticeable most times. And regardless of if it "ricocheted" in the way you imagine bullets to, shotgunning into a wall in real life (assuming it was solid) WOULD hurt you. Steel ball bearings (which are used in buckshot) Are very elastic, and especially at point blank would bounce back with a still dangerous amount of force.

Its hardly all that different than the plasma gun doing it, just with far less damage and with bullets.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby aoshiryaev » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:11 am

That's what I said, bounce back, not ricochet. Doomguy's armor would provide a splendid protection from it. Not a pleasent experience, sure, but not lethal.. Even the muzzle flash can hurt you. On the other hand, muzzle flash appearing after each shot is a hollywood trope, usually there is nothing but smoke. People are different, I see, but for me it is realism over gameplay all the time.
Things do not exist, yeah, so you portray them like you want. But shotguns and such DO exist. In your terms, handuns and shotguns are for self-defense, usually in close quarters. Their ammo is designed not to ricochet.
'bout the MP40, it had a higher ROF then the rifle, but was accurate and didn't chew through ammo like the machinegun.
If noone likes it, screw realism, but can we have an addon to bring back o;d ADS and remove bullet splash damage? Everything would shoot waay up as of now.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby MetroidJunkie » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:58 am

DoomNukem wrote:the game is full of hell spawn and satanic imagery, things that dont exist


Not in the way the game presents them, anyway. Many will argue that hell and demons DO exist, though you aren't likely to find buff pink ones with goat legs hurling green sludge at you.

aoshiryaev wrote:Things do not exist, yeah, so you portray them like you want. But shotguns and such DO exist. In your terms, handuns and shotguns are for self-defense, usually in close quarters. Their ammo is designed not to ricochet.


Who said something based off a real world weapon had to act exactly as the real world weapon does? Doom is set in the future, maybe it has advanced weaponry with specialized ammunition that can bounce around.
Last edited by MetroidJunkie on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:13 am

I got the idea of ricochet damage from a personal experience. Once I got my arm hurt by the shrapnel of a 5.5 air rifle round. It was a very superficial wound, but would have been a serious injury if it had hit my eyes. Now imagine a 4x heavier pistol round traveling 10x faster? There would be much more shrapnel, and it would be much more dangerous. Now imagine 8 heavy balls of lead hitting a wall at the speed of sound? I am pretty sure that it would hurt someone pretty bad at 1 meter of distance.

But it was too much impractical, and was too easy to get hurt with it. This kind of stuff really doesn't belongs to Doom. Maybe I can re-add as a mutator.


MetroidJunkie wrote:
DoomNukem wrote:the game is full of hell spawn and satanic imagery, things that dont exist


Not in the way the game presents them, anyway.


Please let not turn this thread into a religious debate to discuss the existence of demons.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby MetroidJunkie » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:15 am

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:
MetroidJunkie wrote:Not in the way the game presents them, anyway.


Please let not turn this thread into a religious debate to discuss the existence of demons.


Shouldn't you be saying that to the one that first asserted that hell didn't exist? I was merely reacting.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby wildweasel » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:47 am

Starting or reacting, it makes no difference to me. Remember, when I gave that ultimatum a few pages back, about closing the thread if another argument broke out? I'm still serious about that.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby Ghostbreed » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:49 am

Close it all or just cut it?
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:51 am

MetroidJunkie wrote:Shouldn't you be saying that to the one that first asserted that hell didn't exist? I was merely reacting.


I quoted both posts, because the message were applicable to both of you.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby MetroidJunkie » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:53 am

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:I quoted both posts, because the message were applicable to both of you.


Fair enough, then. My intentions weren't to cause an argument or anything of the like and I remained respectful.
Last edited by MetroidJunkie on Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby born v12 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:38 am

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote: Maybe I can re-add as a mutator.

Cool! Waiting for updates BD Mutators
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Re: Brütal Doom v0.18

Postby iVoid » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:03 pm

born v12 wrote:
Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote: Maybe I can re-add as a mutator.

Cool! Waiting for updates BD Mutators

+1! :D

The multi-colored blood is one I'm eagerly expecting too.
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