What are Your Least Favorite Doom and Doom 2 maps, and why?

[Ixnatifual]

Can't actually remember which map number of Doom 2, but back in the day I was stuck in it for many hours because there's a lowerable platform that just has a regular wood texture. In the end I began randomly bumping into walls throughout the level and then eventually activated the platform that way.

[Marnetmar]

Okay, I've taken hated maps from this thread and from other threads and I've gotten a list of some hated maps. Since there's a limited number of options per poll, this will be done in one-week rounds.

What do you hate about the maps listed in the poll?

[Matt]

Why the fuck did you put in Deimos Lab and not Icon of Sin, Limbo or Chasm!?

(and really why even bother with a poll? I can't imagine anything useful coming out of numbers representing something as abstract as the options given here.)

[Potnop]

I more or less agree with some of these.

E2M3: Reactor is just ugly and boring. I also hate E2M5: Command Center for some reason. E3M5: Unholy Cathedral reminds me of E2M5.

I actually like Limbo. It's very surreal and hellish.

Definitely no one seems to like Nirvana. What is up with that map?

Don't like Factory either. Very boring and bland looking map.

I actually like Chasm. It's pretty open and I like the green color scheme. I must admit, the balancing act areas are a little annoying.

I used to not like Spawning Vats or Refueling Base because they were such large complex nonlinear levels, but now I love those maps for that exact reason. I think it was something to do with being 10 or so and having a low attention span for complexity and exploring back then.

Spawning Vats is so surreal and epic. It was also the original level 1 back when DooM was going to be on Tei Tenga and you started out with 4 buddies playing Cards in the hangar or something.

Basically the first levels of Doom 2 in the starport areas were pretty awesome, then the city levels got weird and abstract, but there were some good ones. Then the hellish maps were either OK or plain ugly and boring like Nirvana.


Sometimes I play custom maps or make custom maps and think, wow these are 100x better than stock maps. I bet I'dve been hired by id back then if I showed them my stuff.

[Xaser]

E2M3: Reactor

Hmm, I actually truly wish id had gone with this name. Having both "Refinery" and "Toxin Refinery" in the game is really silly, I still think.

[Marnetmar]

Why the fuck did you put in Deimos Lab and not Icon of Sin, Limbo or Chasm!?

Since there's a limited number of options [allowed] per poll, this will be done in one-week rounds.

(and really why even bother with a poll? I can't imagine anything useful coming out of numbers representing something as abstract as the options given here.)

Just trying to keep the discussion going.

[Matt]

Well, it did get one thing going: I tried to come up with a defence of Deimos Lab but it turns out I actually quite dislike even the thought of playing it.

Never been a fan of nukage-full maps that put a time pressure on exploring anything, and E2M4 has that in a big way, namely a big ring of nukage connecting all the disaparate parts which in turn present themselves all as very isolated encounters that fail to connect in any meaningful way. Any part of it looks eerily beautiful but as a whole it plays as a disjointed muddle.

[printz]

E2M3: Reactor

Hmm, I actually truly wish id had gone with this name. Having both "Refinery" and "Toxin Refinery" in the game is really silly, I still think.

Well, when I encounter a reactor in a game, I expect to be able to destroy it and evacuate. Like those wadsinprogress.info ideas, destroy three crates and two big computers.

[Woolie Wool]

Doom II map 13 "Downtown" and map 16, "Suburbs", because they look so different from what they are supposed to be.

I know vanilla limitations but come on, how about a 1 sector road downtown?

It's a conscious design choice, not anything based on limitations. Doom didn't realistically recreate starports or nuclear plants. The levels have always been abstractions that don't represent anything beyond a basic idea, and the maps were better for it. So expecting to find realistic city blocks seems to be somewhat missing the point.

I dunno, it really wouldn't have been hard to add in some roads or sidewalks that kind of look like roads or sidewalks. I've made a city level that looks and plays better than Downtown in the Wolfenstein engine so I'll just chalk it up to it being a subpar map made by someone who can't texture properly to save his life.

[esselfortium]

Doom II map 13 "Downtown" and map 16, "Suburbs", because they look so different from what they are supposed to be.

I know vanilla limitations but come on, how about a 1 sector road downtown?

It's a conscious design choice, not anything based on limitations. Doom didn't realistically recreate starports or nuclear plants. The levels have always been abstractions that don't represent anything beyond a basic idea, and the maps were better for it. So expecting to find realistic city blocks seems to be somewhat missing the point.

I dunno, it really wouldn't have been hard to add in some roads or sidewalks that kind of look like roads or sidewalks. I've made a city level that looks and plays better than Downtown in the Wolfenstein engine so I'll just chalk it up to it being a subpar map made by someone who can't texture properly to save his life.

And I'm going to just chalk this up to being inflammatory statements made by someone who thinks that flat, open areas with no height variation make a better map than Downtown.

[Woolie Wool]

Downtown is so bad you could hit Random on the Doomworld /idgames front-end, download whatever it lands on, and have a better than even chance of playing a map superior to Downtown. (not to mention the use of height variations is mostly restricted to imps in cages who can't move or do anything interesting, and one fight with some cacodemons)

Other less-than-stellar IWAD maps:

E3M3: A total clusterfuck of seemingly unrelated segments stuck together to assault the eyes and senses. There is no rhyme or reason to either the layout or the aesthetics.

E4M4: A small, underdeveloped maplet with uninteresting gameplay and a total letdown after the completely awesome E4M3.

MAP21: There is absolutely nothing to like about Nirvana. It is frighteningly ugly, the fights are just a series of arenas, the teleporter layout kills any sense of flow, and it feels like the whole thing was made in an hour.

MAP24: For reasons elaborated upon many times in many places.

MAP27: Apparently hell is built out of adobe by masons with brain damage and consists of 80% monster closets.

[Tarnsman]

E2M9, E3M1, and E3M9. Because they suck.

I like every Doom 2 map sans the secret maps because I enjoy my opinion not being wrong.

[Woolie Wool]

E3M1 is actually one of the better maps of E3. It, like E3M2 and E3M5 but unlike all the other E3 maps, has a reasonably consistent visual theme, and the gameplay is a decent way to introduce the third episode by throwing harder monsters at you right from the start and making you have to work for the shotgun.

[Graf Zahl]

Doom II map 13 "Downtown" and map 16, "Suburbs", because they look so different from what they are supposed to be.

I know vanilla limitations but come on, how about a 1 sector road downtown?

It's a conscious design choice, not anything based on limitations. Doom didn't realistically recreate starports or nuclear plants. The levels have always been abstractions that don't represent anything beyond a basic idea, and the maps were better for it. So expecting to find realistic city blocks seems to be somewhat missing the point.

Abstraction my ass.

Sorry, to disagree but I think many of Doom 2's maps went too far with abstraction. Conscious or not, I'd say many of these maps only show Sandy Petersen's (lack of) map making skills. I'd say it's quite telling that in both Doom 1 and Doom 2 the maps he made on his own were my least favourite ones by a large margin.

[esselfortium]

Doom II map 13 "Downtown" and map 16, "Suburbs", because they look so different from what they are supposed to be.

I know vanilla limitations but come on, how about a 1 sector road downtown?

It's a conscious design choice, not anything based on limitations. Doom didn't realistically recreate starports or nuclear plants. The levels have always been abstractions that don't represent anything beyond a basic idea, and the maps were better for it. So expecting to find realistic city blocks seems to be somewhat missing the point.

Abstraction my ass.

Sorry, to disagree but I think many of Doom 2's maps went too far with abstraction. Conscious or not, I'd say many of these maps only show Sandy Petersen's (lack of) map making skills. I'd say it's quite telling that in both Doom 1 and Doom 2 the maps he made on his own were my least favourite ones by a large margin.

"Quite telling" of what? You not liking something is only telling of the fact that you don't like it. Plenty of people don't share your opinion; it's hardly an objective statement of fact.