Another HD sprites project.. (OH NO! here we go again...)

[CaptainToenail]

You're not my father, punk - I'll kick your ass.

Where's my popcorn?

Anyway, yeah, HD sprites for Doom just don't work, quality issues aside. Ideally you would need to make replicas of the original clay models to get higher definition base images to work from, this will allow you to add more frames for a smoother animation too, then hire some professional artists to edit them. This just isn't going to happen. As soon as you upscale them and add detail, you lose the familiar art style anyway, and you can't match everyone's perception of the monsters. The yellow spines on the Pinky's leg for example, certainly not what I imagined at all. It just looks jarringly wrong, at least to me.

Why bother with sprites anyway when 3D models and voxels exist? At least voxels retain the charm and art style of the original game, though making the animated monsters out of them could be problematic.

[Boreas249]

Because the existing 3D models are ugly and stupid looking.


And I quote:

First, I think I stated this in the OP, but seems like it had no effect. So, I will repeat again: The goal of this project is not to perfectly rescale the original sprites, but to improve the monsters, to make them look more grim and more detailed, and adding new details to it. Some things in Doom are IMPOSSIBLE to be universally interpreted. Ask a bunch of guys to draw an Imp's face. Each one will draw it in a completely different way. Why? because it's not possible to know how his face would look like if it was increased. On his front sprites he seems to be pretty human-like, on his sided attack animations, he has no neck. On his pain animations, he has no mouth. Seriously, It's easier to ask for Christians to explain how they think heaven is than asking Doomers to explain how they think an Imp looks like. It's a never-ending discussion, and nobody will ever find a final concept. So, if somebody doesn't like the way some details are getting interpreted, I am sorry, but I am not going to change them, because your interpretation is not the same as mine, which is not the same as other guy.

Second, as I said, the goal is to improve the sprites, and even adding new concepts to them.
As you can see in this image, these sprites (in my opinion) blends perfectly fine with the HD textures pack. Stuff like different tones of the imp skin are very difficult to notice in-game with everything moving.
Take a look at this picture. Don't you really see ANY improvement at all?
http://i47.tinypic.com/bhftih.jpg

Third, no, I don't expect a legion of artists to pop up and help with this. So far I am doing this alone as secondary project, just taking my time. If somebody shows up to help me, I will be glad. If not, that's fine, I can try it. Even if I fail, there will be something left as base for other ones (oh yes, there will be others) interested on making another HD project. As I said, in case of my failure, and another HD project starts, its not even necessary for the new artists to reuse my sprites. They can fit a great placeholder role. For example, you can have a greatly detailed zombieman, and it will not look completely out of place if mixed with my Pinky in comparison that would look if mixed with the original Pinky, and it will act as a way to incentive the artist to continue.


Maybe I have started this thread too early, and should had something playable before starting the thread. But don't worry, this project will not look as bad as most of you are thinking, and at least will be something ok.

[Unholypimpin]

The HD sprites dont look any better tbh. Imo voxels are the way to go.

[RockmanYoshi]

This looks good so far, other than the horns on the Pinky.

Also, are those weapon sprites made by you? I actually kind of like them.

[Boreas249]

I find that the horns make it look scarier. How I actually imagined a pinky would look. Now it actually looks like something I would panic about being in my face. Just the horns are a little too shiny lol.

But other than that, it does look ace.

I'm really wanting to see what the tougher monsters will look like. You know, like the barons, the mancubi... and... cyberdemons. *shudders*

[SoulCrow]

Yeah, I've got my suspicions. I imagine they're those "small" people - the same kind of people that pull in front of you on the interstate, and then go 50 mph. They don't really have any control over their life or anything around them, but, damnit, they're in control now! They're gonna make you slow down, buddy. These are the same people that envy the "beautiful" people, the smart people, the successful people. Instead of encouraging success in themselves and others, they simply wallow in their messy misery. To boost their almost non-existant ego, they sling terds at anyone's brave, noble attempt to offer free-of-charge entertainment and enjoyment.

Wow. Jumping to some pretty big conclusions here aren't we?

You don't offer criticism, other than "give up, it's useless". Seriously, how does that help anything?

I can't really see how you can honestly say that. The comments in this thread have on the whole been very constructive.
The way that I see it, the only part of this thread that could be interpreted as "give up, it's useless" are when users like Blox and Kinsie were explaining why this type of project has failed in the past. In this case, they were both responding to -Ghost- who said that "I think part of the problem too is that there's always a lot of nay-sayers with these projects" when in actuality he was the first one to bring up that whole little sub-discussion in this thread. It doesn't seem to me that Blox or Kinsie were specifically targeting Sergeant_Mark_IV, or telling him to give up at all.

No one has asked you to lift a finger.

I think what Doom64hunter is trying to say here is that it's incredibly inefficient to deliberately take a blasé attitude towards this project with the aim of letting someone else do more work on it later (I'm not suggesting that this is Sergeant_Mark_IV's aim here either). It would seem to make more sense to try and do a good job the first time round, but that takes us into the sub-discussion started by -Ghost- as mentioned above.

Nope, that's what you've been saying.

Err, no... that's what you were saying. I refer you to the second quote of yours I've included in this post.

You're not my father, punk - I'll kick your ass.

This is just flat-out hypocritical, as you go on to ask people to be a little nicer around here right after threatening them in the above manner.

Absolutely, provide criticism, where needed. But, balance that with praise when justified, otherwise you're not being honest. And, if you need to criticise each and every sprite, ok, but, know that your words should be chosen carefully - people *are* emotionally invested in their work, as a general rule. There's no need to "rip them a new one"

Personally I find people being blunt and to the point to be more honest than padding out what they're saying with unnecessary fluff. Also, this is the internet. I thought one of the general rules of the internet is not to take things too personally, or seriously? I haven't seen anyone viciously attack anyone else in this thread so far, with the possible exception of your unnecessary threat above.

But, if you simply don't like the project, no, there's no need to post that. It's obvious that the project is important to some people. Why take that away?

I think you're viewing peoples' motives for posting here in a particularly defensive manner. It's not that people intentionally want to 'take this away' from others, but that they're merely imparting their advice on Sergeant_Mark_IV so he can better extend the longevity of this project, avoiding the pitfalls that have claimed other similar works in the past.

That's what I mean, why did you feel the need to use the word "crappy"? It's disgraceful, man. That's cruel, just for the sake of being cruel. Are you proud?

This just sounds patronising. When you post your work onto the Internet, you're posting it in a public place (particularly a forum like this), so you're opening your work up to criticism. You can't control what people are going to say about it. Some things will be nice, some not so. Crappy isn't even a particularly bad word, not that people here are averse to cussing. If you get offended by words/statements like this, then you need to learn to take it in your stride and either ignore it or discern the point of the statement and potentially learn from what might be a very good point.

Anyway, as you say you're done with this thread for now. The only thing that's bogging down this thread is this discussion, so if we can move on and stay on-topic that would be ideal (I realize this sounds hypocritical of me after now adding my thoughts on this, but someone had reported the thread and I took action that I think is appropriate).

[Dortold]

I didn't read through the wall of text, but I do agree with your last sentence. Back to the sprites:

Someone mentioned earlier that the Pinky's horns are too shiny. I agree. Although I do think they look pretty rad, metalicized like that.

EDIT: GUYS, STAHP!

[kb1]

You're not my father, punk - I'll kick your ass.

This is just flat-out hypocritical, as you go on to ask people to be a little nicer around here right after threatening them in the above manner.

Everyone knows the differemce between bashing and constructive criticism (they should, anyway). When a project that I'm interested in get bashed, I speak up. When I get bashed, I speak up. All the rules of curteousy seem to change for me once I've been attacked - I guess it's a weakness.

Personally I find people being blunt and to the point to be more honest than padding out what they're saying with unnecessary fluff. Also, this is the internet. I thought one of the general rules of the internet is not to take things too personally, or seriously? I haven't seen anyone viciously attack anyone else in this thread so far, with the possible exception of your unnecessary threat above.

I agree: bluntness without fluff is good, if it is not meant to be destructive. But, no, being face-to-face should not be the *only* reason people act civil to one another. Being on the internet is no excuse for acting uncivil (my comments included).

I think you're viewing peoples' motives for posting here in a particularly defensive manner. It's not that people intentionally want to 'take this away' from others, but that they're merely imparting their advice on Sergeant_Mark_IV so he can better extend the longevity of this project, avoiding the pitfalls that have claimed other similar works in the past.

Ok, I'll accept that as a possibility. If that's true for everyone that has posted, I apologize and stand corrected.

That's what I mean, why did you feel the need to use the word "crappy"? It's disgraceful, man. That's cruel, just for the sake of being cruel. Are you proud?

This just sounds patronising. When you post your work onto the Internet, you're posting it in a public place (particularly a forum like this), so you're opening your work up to criticism. You can't control what people are going to say about it. Some things will be nice, some not so. Crappy isn't even a particularly bad word, not that people here are averse to cussing. If you get offended by words/statements like this, then you need to learn to take it in your stride and either ignore it or discern the point of the statement and potentially learn from what might be a very good point.

Come on, man, that isn't what happening here. The "crappy" remark was not criticism, it was at best rude, and closer to hostile. It's a form of bullying, to slant an entire unfinished piece of work, because you're beating on someone when they're vulnerable.
I quote again:

...Id much rather see a voxel project that converts monsters into voxels rather than some crappy HD project that cancels after 1 or 2 monsters.

Had he said something like, "I'd like to see a voxel project that converts monsters into voxels. Most HDs projects end up being crappy and cancel after 1 or 2 monsters, so I'm skeptical, but good luck anyway.", it would not be so hostile. It's not about controlling what people say. People are responsible for how they communicate to others...in person, on the internet, everywhere. It's not about fluff. It's about having the ability to tear something down, and restraining from doing so, because it's the right thing to do.

I apologize for my comments derived from anger. And, I am *now* done, and will not comment further on this matter. Good luck with the project.

[Death Egg]

I'd been thinking about making an attempt at an HD sprite before, but I don't think I really have the time or the artistic skills to do a full set. However, I figured that the two major issues with most HD sprites (including the ones in this topic) are, as stated, attempting gritty realism and trying to stay true to the original, I'd attempt something a lot more basic: sprites only twice the size of the original rather than four times. To immensely speed up the process, I used a program specifically designed for enlarging/rotating sprites, then smoothened out and added a little more detail to areas that needed it, resulting in this:


(HD sprite after touch ups, Original Sprite, HD sprite after using program)

It could probably use a bit more work but I'd like to see what anyone else thinks. Also anyone's free to use/edit this or use the same method to do other sprites. (Also if this is too derail-y could this post be split into another topic?)

[Unholypimpin]

Had he said something like, "I'd like to see a voxel project that converts monsters into voxels. Most HDs projects end up being crappy and cancel after 1 or 2 monsters, so I'm skeptical, but good luck anyway.", it would not be so hostile. It's not about controlling what people say. People are responsible for how they communicate to others...in person, on the internet, everywhere. It's not about fluff. It's about having the ability to tear something down, and restraining from doing so, because it's the right thing to do.

I'm sorry if I type out exactly how i feel and it offends your little eyes. If you don't like what I type then freakin ignore it. This is the internet, you dont have to get mad about anything because its not like you will ever meet these people face to face. Its you're choice to either get mad at something or ignore it. If the project leader wants me to explain why I said what i said then ill gladly share.

I apologize for my comments derived from anger. And, I am *now* done, and will not comment further on this matter. Good luck with the project.

Funny how you have said that before and yet here you are crying an even bigger river. I think this is one of those moments where you're pet cat should put his hand on yours and say, I think its time for you to stop posting.

[timmyr0x0r]

I'd been thinking about making an attempt at an HD sprite before, but I don't think I really have the time or the artistic skills to do a full set. However, I figured that the two major issues with most HD sprites (including the ones in this topic) are, as stated, attempting gritty realism and trying to stay true to the original, I'd attempt something a lot more basic: sprites only twice the size of the original rather than four times. To immensely speed up the process, I used a program specifically designed for enlarging/rotating sprites, then smoothened out and added a little more detail to areas that needed it, resulting in this:


(HD sprite after touch ups, Original Sprite, HD sprite after using program)

It could probably use a bit more work but I'd like to see what anyone else thinks. Also anyone's free to use/edit this or use the same method to do other sprites. (Also if this is too derail-y could this post be split into another topic?)

I think that yeah, it should be split into another topic, but indeed it's interesing.

[Hornetzero]

I'm sorry if I type out exactly how i feel and it offends your little eyes. If you don't like what I type then freakin ignore it. This is the internet, you dont have to get mad about anything because its not like you will ever meet these people face to face. Its you're choice to either get mad at something or ignore it. If the project leader wants me to explain why I said what i said then ill gladly share.

Yeah its the internet, and if you post something, you should be prepared for comments disagreeing with your own ones. Its hypocritical for you to think that your blunt bashing of this project should be immune to recieving counter criticism from other members.

Get off your high horse and look at things from others pespective. Kb may have came off as immature with his comments but his sentiments are justified.
Why don't you practice what you preach and buzz off this thread if its not to your liking.

[Boreas249]

Can we please, I beg you guys, PLEASE get back on topic, this useless arguing and bickering and stupid stuff is doing nothing for this project.

Death Egg, I like your idea (and your name lol, sorry had to say) the imp looks smoother, less pixelated... but yeah, that should have its own thread.

This project seems to change the style of the sprites in a way, giving them a new look... I like it, may not come out being the best thing but I do like where it's going.

[wildweasel]

I think this is one of those moments where you're pet cat should put his hand on yours and say, I think its time for you to stop posting.

As a moderator, I would like to say the same to the both of you, before this gets any further out of hand.

[edit] I notice BoldEnglishman has already stepped in and had his say, and I really hope that further action does not need to be taken in this case.

[kb1]

I think this is one of those moments where you're pet cat should put his hand on yours and say, I think its time for you to stop posting.

As a moderator, I would like to say the same to the both of you, before this gets any further out of hand.

No problems here, man. And, my cat is awesome

(HD sprite after touch ups, Original Sprite, HD sprite after using program)

It could probably use a bit more work but I'd like to see what anyone else thinks. Also anyone's free to use/edit this or use the same method to do other sprites. (Also if this is too derail-y could this post be split into another topic?)

Maybe you and Sergeant_Mark_IV can collaborate. I'm not very artistic at all, but, seems reasonable to at least start with automated upsized originals, and touch them up as needed. Is that the normal procedure?

Would it make sense to start out with a wad that replaces all original sprites with automated upscales, and replace each of those with the custom touched-up images as they become available? I know it's not a lot of work, but it's something I could provide if it would be of assistance.