[Unfinished] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby wildweasel » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:29 pm

The Shotgun seems to be getting a lot of complaints, but bear in mind that it replaces the crossbow, and the crossbow is traditionally weak as hell. Acolytes wear armor, and shotguns are bad against armor and metallic stuff in real-world terms. (And yet no complaints about the assault gun needing roughly nine bullets to take down acolytes?)

Further justification of the shotgun: ammo for it costs 5 gold for 4 shells at the vendor in town (ask for "electric bolts" and you'll get 'em). If the shotgun were any more powerful than it is, I'd change it so you're being charged 5 gold per shell to compensate.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Snarboo » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:49 pm

I feel it's just about right. Given how much ammo you can carry and how cheap it is, if it was any more powerful it would dominate the arsenal. I'm really digging the silenced pistol, too. Both work well in tandem with the assault gun and mix up the arsenal.

Honestly, I've always wanted to use an acolyte shield. Would it be possible to have one as an upgrade for the pistol or assault gun? When picked up, the secondary would cause you to raise the shield. Perhaps it could use ammo as a health meter that's depleted as the shield is hit, too. Then when it breaks, you lose it.

Not sure how feasible that is but it's an idea.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Xaser » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:51 pm

If the shotgun has to stay how it is, maybe you'd consider giving it a power upgrade in place of the usual accuracy upgrade? That way it can actually be useful later on unlike a certain Crossbow ammotype.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Ethril » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:17 am

Heh. Everyone who feels the shotgun is too weak is probably just spoiled by the incredibly overpowered Doom shotguns. :P I just gave it a test run and it (as well as the silenced pistol and new assault gun) performed admirably up to and during the Power Plant; I've yet to play farther, though. (Also I somehow managed to set off the alarm in town and had to kill those 120 or so Acolytes with just those three basic weapons. It wasn't pretty.)

Anyway, since it doesn't really make sense for the player becoming more accurate to make a shotgun spread less, maybe just add one more pellet to each shot per upgrade, or something? (Even though that makes even less sense)
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby wildweasel » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:35 am

I've just thought of a better way to handle the Upgrades system...let me know what you think of this:

  1. Every time Macil is supposed to give you one upgrade voucher, he will actually give you three "upgrade points."
  2. These points appear in your inventory bar as usable items.
  3. When used, the Upgrade Point is spent on your currently selected weapon.
  4. Each weapon would have three upgrade levels (beyond the basic level).
  5. The only non-upgradable weapon would be the punch dagger, as UpgradeStamina is not as messy as UpgradeAccuracy (i.e. I can just use the A_JabDagger pointer instead of A_CustomPunch), meaning upgrades are already handled automatically when a stamina implant is given.
  6. Some examples of upgrades for weapons: the Assault Rifle will get increased clip size, reduced recoil, and increased accuracy. The Silenced Pistol will get increased damage, more increased damage, and lightened slide (removes need to rechamber weapon, speeding up fire rate somewhat). The Shotgun will get a raw damage increase, a payload increase, and a quicker reload.

[edit] Damn it, I can't replace UpgradeAccuracy or GunTraining! Even occupying the same ConversationID proves troublesome. What the hell.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Cyanosis » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:52 am

Wasn't Strife only working on ZDoom because of reversed engineering? The original source was lost I think, and the way everything's setup right now suggests some seriously hardwired code, hence the lack of mods for Strife.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby NeuralStunner » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:06 am

Cyanosis wrote:Wasn't Strife only working on ZDoom because of reversed engineering?
Pretty much. Rogue didn't have ACS, so they had to do a lot of hard-coding and downright hacking. It did contribute a lot to ZDoom though - Killed monsters targeting their killer, for instance.

Something I found on MobyGames just recently:
While Doom and some other games using its engine have had 3D-accelerated updates in recent times, courtesy of code-releases from the developers and some talented fans in the community, sadly it looks as if theis may not happen with Strife. Members of Rogue Entertainment have commented that they would love to release the code to the community where it might be taken up by such projects, but they are legally unable to do so as they do not own all the rights that would allow them. (The game is superb, regardless.)
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby wildweasel » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:13 am

Well, I got the upgrade items working. It'll be a mess, code-wise, and since I can't modify the shops to say other things, I will need to leave notes in a readme about how to use the upgrades...

Next version of the mod will have upgrades available for at least the three currently-replaced weapons.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Snarboo » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:57 pm

That sounds like a nice addition, glad to see you got it to work somehow.

IIRC, you get 10 accuracy upgrades in the game, which means you will get 30 upgrade points in total. That's enough to upgrade every weapon in the game assuming you don't add any more. Honestly, I think you should limit it to two per accuracy upgrade or make sequential upgrades cost more to offset this. Forcing the player to specialize is a good thing IMO. However, this is entirely dependent on how the code is currently handled.

As for how to communicate this to the player, it should be possible to insert a script into the first level that pops up a hints screen explaining how the new systems work. Alternatively, you could edit the help screen.

Edit:
Will upgrades change the weapon visually? For instance, when you upgrade the accuracy on the assault gun, perhaps the character grabs the magazine for support? Increased ammo capacity would also be possible and very simple: just extend the magazine. Perhaps the grenade launcher starts off with only one barrel, too, getting a second one as the first upgrade.

If this is too much work, I'd be willing to do the graphics for you since it's a simple edit. Most of the weapons probably won't need drastic changes, with only maybe the assault gun or grenade launcher needing any. In fact, I believe I still have some graphics I worked on for another Strife mod.

Edit 2:
If this is beyond the scope of the project let me know, heh. This mod excites me and I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby wildweasel » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:31 pm

Altered graphics for upgrades would be slightly tricky - it'd mean I'd have to effectively recode the weapon for each upgrade that would change the weapon's appearance. Making the graphics is no problem, as you said, it's a simple edit. But the code would be a nightmare (you should see what a mess the assault gun is at the moment...geez).
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Snarboo » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:42 pm

Understandable, you'd effectively have to code the weapon four times.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby wildweasel » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:34 am

Which direction should I take the upgrade system? Currently one voucher gives you three points, and each weapon can be upgraded three times. Should I increase the number of times a weapon can be upgraded? Decrease the amount of credits given? Make later upgrades cost more?
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Ethril » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:06 am

wildweasel wrote:Which direction should I take the upgrade system? Currently one voucher gives you three points, and each weapon can be upgraded three times. Should I increase the number of times a weapon can be upgraded? Decrease the amount of credits given? Make later upgrades cost more?


Have enough points for all upgrades, but have them cost gold as well (nothing major; it's supposed to be a REWARD, after all), with later ones costing more.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby FDARI » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:37 am

A fairly common approach is to make higher level upgrades cost more (level 1, 1 point; level 2, 2 points...)
That would perhaps allow a meaningful choice between specialisation and broad skillsets, as well as mirroring a common feature of reality: The further you have progressed, the less progress you gain for your efforts. It applies in skill acquisition (time invested in practice) and equipment purchase (the price of a guitar) alike.
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Re: [Small Project] Strife Needs A God Damn Mod

Postby Snarboo » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:53 pm

Yeah, having cumulative upgrades cost more is how I'd do it.
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