[RANT] The ZDoom forums as a resource for editors.

Post by **Enjay** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:05 am

Sample WADs for the Wiki is a great idea IMO - if carefully monitored. I've made countless little one room WADs to illustrate a point that have since disappeared into the void. Other people have too. Giving these WADs a permanent home where they can easily be found and where they can easily be linked to from the forums would be very useful. It would need to be updatable by all - like the Wiki, even if via an authorised individual - and not like the examples directory on this server. The examples directory is useful, but only has a handful of illustrative WADs in it and there is no way for most people to add to it.

Bio's points all make sense and underline the difficulty of this situation. A lot of what has been causing difficulty is stuff that the moderators would have difficulty in dealing with because it may not be immediately apparent what is wrong and the best way to fix it may not be clear either. It's kind of like the "low level disruption" teachers will be familiar with. Often no-one is doing anything overtly wrong, perhaps there is not even any malice in what is being done, but the class is not running well even if putting your finger on exactly why this is so and nailing an individual culprit is impossible.

If Sir_Alien is prepared to take on the task of housekeeping in the way he suggests, I'd certainly back him.

David Ferstat · Post by **David Ferstat** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:19 am

I think that Sir_Alien has already proven himself on these fora to be both knowledgable and mature. I think that he also has some very good points; the noise to content ratio here is, sometimes, alarmingly high, and a slightly more assertive, if not actively aggressive, moderation might prove useful.

I'd be very happy for him to do a prune of the Editing forum.

On the subject of stickies, it might be worth looking to the Star Wars Galaxies official message boards. Of especial interest is the Game Guides / Hints / Tips thread, which, in the small number of stickies at the top, has a thread which is a collection of links to other threads. This could be the solution to the "three pages of stickies" problem referred to earlier.

Post by **Kappes Buur** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:31 am

Kappes Buur wrote:... Unfortunately, I have not yet found a way of how to upload a map to the WIKI, or I would have done so myself already.

I must correct myself on this one.

In June I had attempted to upload an example pwad to the WIKI. I thought it did not work, because I received no confirmation about the upload. However, just now I took a closer look at the list of uploaded files, and lo and behold, there it is. So uploading an example pwad is possible, as are images. I just have not yet figured out, how the linking to these files is done.

Medricel · Post by **Medricel** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:30 pm

Kappes Buur wrote:I just have not yet figured out, how the linking to these files is done.

From looking at the page code of the PolyObjects page, this is the line that links to the example ZIP:

Code: Select all

<center>[[Image:Polyexample.zip|Download the example wad (729 bytes)]]</center>

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:43 pm

David Ferstat wrote:I think that Sir_Alien has already proven himself on these fora to be both knowledgable and mature. I think that he also has some very good points; the noise to content ratio here is, sometimes, alarmingly high, and a slightly more assertive, if not actively aggressive, moderation might prove useful.

I'd be very happy for him to do a prune of the Editing forum.

seconded.
I've gotten tired of the crap too and i'd love to see Sir_Alien to clean most of it up.

solarsnowfall · Post by **solarsnowfall** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:17 pm

Enjay wrote:Sample WADs for the Wiki is a great idea IMO - if carefully monitored.

Yea, I guess it wouldn't be at all bad, as long as we made sure crap wasn't getting posted.

Sir_Alien · Post by **Sir_Alien** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:25 pm

Okay, here's an example of my idea in action with a couple of suggestions in this thread taken into consideration:

Custom Hud Wiki Page

Now, while this page is a little "cobbled together", it does preserve a lot of useful information from forum conversations on a single page, and as I trawl through related threads I can add bits and pieces of useful information throughout the page as I go. The result would then be a consolidation of all information and an aggressive pruning of the forums, including the problems I've raised in this thread as well as old threads which yield outdated information. I can create these wiki pages as I go through the forums.

Looking at this system as objectively as I can:

PROS:

Will reduce the amount of clutter in the Editing forums.
Will provide starting points for much needed wiki pages; information will be compiled onto a single page which can then be reorganised and polished.
Increase the efficiency of forum searching and decrease the need for it!

CONS:

I'm welcome to hear anyone's thoughts but I can't really see any downside to this method at present... I'm sure someone will find something tho...

Also, have you guys ever considered having a proper Wiki admin? There are a few people around who have extensive experience with wiki's (evidenced by this thread alone), and could spearhead a plan to re-organise and refine the wiki by highlighting problem pages, pages that need updating and pages that seem to be in high demand by the forum going community and whatever. Basically someone who can actually get things moving to get the wiki into shape. Probably someone who actually wants the job would also be a good credential...

Just a thought.

Anyway, this would be my first step in cleaning things up, as this method will allow for the removal of dozens of threads at a time, so things won't be so hectic when it gets to the point where I'm reviewing each thread on a regular basis...

Cheers.

Post by **Enjay** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:40 pm

Looks good to me. A proper tutorial page with a clear statement of required prior knowledge, clear instructions and linked script examples. I only have one minor gripe, and it's with style rather than content or principle:

Keep in mind the size of the average users' screen resolution, e.g. 640x480 or 800x600. This is important because I can tell you that a 1024x768 HUD graphic does not scale down well.

Just a personal preference (ahem) but I don't like it when manuals/text books/instructions are personal and "chummy". I like the "all we want are the facts, ma'am" approach. However, I realise this is as much a preference thing as anything else. Hell, it could even be a British thing. So, it'd be worth hearing what other people think before changing anything. I'm sure the Wiki is already full of such phrases anyway.

As for a proper Wiki Admin. Again that sounds like a useful and sensible suggestion, provided someone suitable was willing to do it of course.

Sir_Alien · Post by **Sir_Alien** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:48 pm

Enjay wrote:Just a personal preference (ahem) but I don't like it when manuals/text books/instructions are personal and "chummy". I like the "all we want are the facts, ma'am" approach. However, I realise this is as much a preference thing as anything else. Hell, it could even be a British thing. So, it'd be worth hearing what other people think before changing anything. I'm sure the Wiki is already full of such phrases anyway.

Huh, that's funny, I totally agree and remember thinking "I need to do something about that" when I was editing it, but must have forgotten...

Fixed.

Medricel · Post by **Medricel** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:45 pm

BTW, there's no such thing as "Armour" in a player's inventory

The Wiki wrote:HudMessage (i: CheckInventory("Armour");

Sir_Alien · Post by **Sir_Alien** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:04 pm

It's not my fault an entire nation never learnt to spell...

Thanks for fixing that.

Medricel · Post by **Medricel** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:07 pm

Sir_Alien wrote:It's not my fault an entire nation never learnt to spell...

Eh, we'll just blame it on the French and walk away, whistling.

skadoomer · Post by **skadoomer** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:28 pm

If your intention is to provide sample wads, I beleave it is of some use to update the tutorials page on zdoom. I know over the years it has helped me figure out a good deal of zdoom editing, but i don't think it has been updated in several years.

This may prove to be of some benifit to people, even if you just add links on the tutorials page to the wiki. I know from personal expierence that the wiki is great if you know how to find what your looking for, but for people who are unfamiliair to the termonology of what it is they are dealing with, it can be a nightmare of searching and refining searching if the link isn't directly placerd on one of the main pages. This may seem foolish, but i have a suspision thats why the forms get littered with such obvious questions (for most of the veterns anyway) at times.

Last but not least, I have been in full support of a FAQ stickey topic at the head of the editing forums to provide links to the tutorals page, the wiki and perhaps some simple guides to using the search tool. It may not do a lot in terms of cutting the nonsense that gets posted, but people will still read it and maybe some of them will find what they are looking for.

Travis · Post by **Travis** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:01 pm

Sir_Alien wrote:And almost instantly a good example of what I'm talking about appears.

I apologize for trying to keep the "dozens of pages of crap" to one. And...

Enjay wrote:...where something could theoretically be possible but so unlikely to ever be used in an actual mod...Why? Was the requester planning on using the feature? Very unlikely...

I have quite the intent of using those features, and would not have requested to have them implemented otherwise. If you knew what I have in mind for this project, I think it would be clear that these features would prove useful.

But okay, like I said, I apologize, and I'll do my best to refrain from this from now on.
-Travis

Sir_Alien · Post by **Sir_Alien** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:29 pm

Please don't take anything Enjay and I have said personally. It's not really even your fault. What encouragement have you had to abide by the forum rules? Do you even know where to find them? After you created that thread did either of the Moderators quietly take you aside and offer some advice?

Which is my original point if you read my first thread again. I'm sorry if my post you quoted sounded like an attack; I was merely citing it as a product of the problems with these forums.