And when he does I'll be ready. I know there's a lot that needs to be done on this and I am really wanting to help out right about now
ZDCMP2, like a phoenix from the ashes, starting up again.
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Before asking on how to use a ZDoom feature, read the ZDoom wiki first. This forum is archived - please use this set of forums to ask new questions.
It seems to me that to get ZDCMP2 back on track and released, we need to work through the following stages:
Stage one: Resource Gathering
Stage two: Resource Clean-up
Stage three: Create level goals
Stage four: Finish mapping
Stage five: Bug Fixing
Stage six: Final Detailing
Stage seven: Gameplay balancing
First, we need our resources back. Everybody needs to scrounge their hard-drives for the most recent version of the ZDCMP and check the date. Then, we need to figure out what’s official and what’s not. It does no good if you have the most recent version of a wad if that’s because you modded it recently. We need a place to store them (Think we can be ZDCMP.drdteam.org?) so we can access them, and then we can move on.
Next, we need to clean up the resources. I know that biffs complained that the wad is all jumbled and confused on the inside. There’s both decorate weapons and dehacked weapons, and there are bits of levels not attached to other bits, and bits of decorate code not attached to anything. Basically, we need to put this wad in a state where many people can use it easily.
Next, we need to make a list of things that need or could be done; a list of goals. I did this at the beginning of last summer by doing this: I printed off a large copy of the level on six 8.5X11 sheets. Then, I colored in all of the areas green (Meaning they’re done) yellow (Done, but need a purpose) or red (very obviously unfinished.) Then, I pit large black Xs where there were doors leading into solid walls, ect. By doing this, I gave the map a bit of flow (Most notably by adding the batteries to give the player a reason to go to all of the dead ends.) and came up with a to do list.
At this point, ZDCMP2 goes public. (Well, more public than it already is.) We abandon this thread (With it's far too many pages) and start a new, new mapper friendly thread. If people don't have to worry about missing 80 pages of backstory, they are more likely to show up and map.
Next, we need to finish mapping. We’re going to get it done this summer. Each person signs out a problem, and they work on it to fix it. A problem can be a glitch (This switch doesn’t work) a gameplay issue (There is no reason for the player to go to this dead-end) an unfinished area, or simply a door that leads into a wall (The problem is fixed by mapping the other side of the door or deleting the door in question.)
Finally, we start an intensive bug hunt to kill off any six-legged intruders that remain. After that, we get to the final strech.
We've got a level at this point, but after this, we should really do our best to make it shine. We find un/under detailed rooms and make them pretty. We divide the level into rooms and sign out rooms, and make them as good as possible in terms of detail, textures, and visual effects.
Then, we get a bunch of people in here to help with monster placement. Right now, the monsters get hard and then easy again somewhat randomly without much theme. At the end, we remove most of the monsters and re-populate the map as needed. Skill level one and two should be placed so that reasonably skilled noob can do it. (I.E, he uses mouse and keyboard instead of the arrowkeys, but is basically lame.) Skill level three is where most of us would find it challenging but beatable. Skill level four should be challenging for the people who are nuts good at doom and complain that nothing is challenging enough. (Can somebody say... Belial?
What do you guys think?
If there are no immediate objections, lets start right with phase one.
______________
I have a resource pack dated 14 Aug 2005
I have a map dated September 03 2005
I don't think the map is current, though, because I remember a non-English speaker by the name of AK-01 who did a part of the map that isn't here.
And I have no clue about the resources.
Stage one: Resource Gathering
Stage two: Resource Clean-up
Stage three: Create level goals
Stage four: Finish mapping
Stage five: Bug Fixing
Stage six: Final Detailing
Stage seven: Gameplay balancing
First, we need our resources back. Everybody needs to scrounge their hard-drives for the most recent version of the ZDCMP and check the date. Then, we need to figure out what’s official and what’s not. It does no good if you have the most recent version of a wad if that’s because you modded it recently. We need a place to store them (Think we can be ZDCMP.drdteam.org?) so we can access them, and then we can move on.
Next, we need to clean up the resources. I know that biffs complained that the wad is all jumbled and confused on the inside. There’s both decorate weapons and dehacked weapons, and there are bits of levels not attached to other bits, and bits of decorate code not attached to anything. Basically, we need to put this wad in a state where many people can use it easily.
Next, we need to make a list of things that need or could be done; a list of goals. I did this at the beginning of last summer by doing this: I printed off a large copy of the level on six 8.5X11 sheets. Then, I colored in all of the areas green (Meaning they’re done) yellow (Done, but need a purpose) or red (very obviously unfinished.) Then, I pit large black Xs where there were doors leading into solid walls, ect. By doing this, I gave the map a bit of flow (Most notably by adding the batteries to give the player a reason to go to all of the dead ends.) and came up with a to do list.
At this point, ZDCMP2 goes public. (Well, more public than it already is.) We abandon this thread (With it's far too many pages) and start a new, new mapper friendly thread. If people don't have to worry about missing 80 pages of backstory, they are more likely to show up and map.
Next, we need to finish mapping. We’re going to get it done this summer. Each person signs out a problem, and they work on it to fix it. A problem can be a glitch (This switch doesn’t work) a gameplay issue (There is no reason for the player to go to this dead-end) an unfinished area, or simply a door that leads into a wall (The problem is fixed by mapping the other side of the door or deleting the door in question.)
Finally, we start an intensive bug hunt to kill off any six-legged intruders that remain. After that, we get to the final strech.
We've got a level at this point, but after this, we should really do our best to make it shine. We find un/under detailed rooms and make them pretty. We divide the level into rooms and sign out rooms, and make them as good as possible in terms of detail, textures, and visual effects.
Then, we get a bunch of people in here to help with monster placement. Right now, the monsters get hard and then easy again somewhat randomly without much theme. At the end, we remove most of the monsters and re-populate the map as needed. Skill level one and two should be placed so that reasonably skilled noob can do it. (I.E, he uses mouse and keyboard instead of the arrowkeys, but is basically lame.) Skill level three is where most of us would find it challenging but beatable. Skill level four should be challenging for the people who are nuts good at doom and complain that nothing is challenging enough. (Can somebody say... Belial?
What do you guys think?
If there are no immediate objections, lets start right with phase one.
______________
I have a resource pack dated 14 Aug 2005
I have a map dated September 03 2005
I don't think the map is current, though, because I remember a non-English speaker by the name of AK-01 who did a part of the map that isn't here.
And I have no clue about the resources.
I have the following files that you may be interested in:
ZDcmp2map.wad 20th October
zdcmp2resource.wad 16th October
killbotbeta.wad 11th September
Round5log.txt 26th October (go figure...)
Walthrough.txt 20th October
I'm running under the assumption that the most recent updates might have be done by any of the following:
Biff
Myself
Lord Mattus (anybody else remember his totally random updates to whatever, giving us several wtf moments?)
and I'd say possibly Kirby, but not too likely.
Be aware that I would have got the most recent update from a folder I considered trust worthy at the time, so it's probably Biff's update with all the sounds, after verifying what Lord Mattus has done.
If you want, I can play through the wad and come up with a big long detailed insiders list of what I feel needs doing, but I won't be able to do that now, because it's a little too late. however, it can easily happen tomorrow.
I can also look through the resource wad, but I'm not too good at managing resources, especially ones I didn't put together in the first place. I think somebody like DomRem or Biff wuld be ideal for checking that out. The former because he was good at it the first time round, and the latter because he's worked with them quite a bit, and is rather damn good at it too
ZDcmp2map.wad 20th October
zdcmp2resource.wad 16th October
killbotbeta.wad 11th September
Round5log.txt 26th October (go figure...)
Walthrough.txt 20th October
I'm running under the assumption that the most recent updates might have be done by any of the following:
Biff
Myself
Lord Mattus (anybody else remember his totally random updates to whatever, giving us several wtf moments?)
and I'd say possibly Kirby, but not too likely.
Be aware that I would have got the most recent update from a folder I considered trust worthy at the time, so it's probably Biff's update with all the sounds, after verifying what Lord Mattus has done.
If you want, I can play through the wad and come up with a big long detailed insiders list of what I feel needs doing, but I won't be able to do that now, because it's a little too late. however, it can easily happen tomorrow.
I can also look through the resource wad, but I'm not too good at managing resources, especially ones I didn't put together in the first place. I think somebody like DomRem or Biff wuld be ideal for checking that out. The former because he was good at it the first time round, and the latter because he's worked with them quite a bit, and is rather damn good at it too
Just hope that claim doesn't turn out to be the claim that once was "NDCP will be released December 2003" and you should be fine.Talonos wrote:We’re going to get it done this summer.
Glad to see this is picked up once more though. By the looks of it it's had a rough time. Did the first one's production struggle this much?
Well, not if the thread is anything to go by.
I'll tell you what (some of) the problems were:
This map ballooning out of proportion, causing all sorts of errors and open ended problems.
The sheer number of times it's switched teams completely.
The people who said 'Oh, I'll make a room or two', then never turned up again, ever.
The sheer size of the map. It's now a four map hub, and could well end up being bigger still. It's the ZDCHP I tell you!
The cursed number 4.
(I'm serious, round 4 was a total nightmare. We ended up skipping it after two attempts)
I'll tell you what (some of) the problems were:
This map ballooning out of proportion, causing all sorts of errors and open ended problems.
The sheer number of times it's switched teams completely.
The people who said 'Oh, I'll make a room or two', then never turned up again, ever.
The sheer size of the map. It's now a four map hub, and could well end up being bigger still. It's the ZDCHP I tell you!
The cursed number 4.
(I'm serious, round 4 was a total nightmare. We ended up skipping it after two attempts)Sure. Let's see them, Phobus.
You going through and playing them would be a good thing, and I'd like to see that list. Once I get the files, I will too.
Basically, I know what happened this time that didn't happen the first ZDCMP.
The first ZDCMP, we had a bunch of quick and highly skilled and experienced mappers. They went through and took one day each with the map to add their area. They were so good that they were able to put out a lot of high quality stuff during their one day, and make a large contribution to the map. The whole thing was done in about three months.
When ZDCMP2 came along, potential mappers (myself included) figured that in order to do the kind of stuff that the first crop was doing, they would have to work for a week or more. They started their room or area early, before it got to them. By the time their day came along, the area they were planning on adding their room onto was already taken, so they added a hallway and their area branching off in a different direction. This happened over and over again, until eventually, the entire map became nothing but a spiderweb of different building leading off into lost area with dead ends. Nobody knew what the map was supposed to do, and eventaully, it got to the size that people were afraid to work on it.
I had to sort some things out. Basically, all I did was count the number of dead ends that there were. In each dead end, I put a keycard, and locked the door to another dead end with it. Finally, I ran out of keycards, so I started putting down batteries, and scripted a door that would only open if you found all four. After I did that, the level had a flow again, and once I put up a walkthrough, people felt confortable mapping again. The thing still looks like a spiderweb, though.
That being said, there were many doors that lead into walls, or simply didn't open. Sometimes, I put a keycard or a battery in front of the door. When the person finished up what was on the other side of the door, they made a suitable receptacle for the battery or keycard and move it into their area, changing a door that leads nowhere into a definete endpoint. Other times, I just left it as is. Right now, anytime there is a building without an interior or a door that is pointless, I point it out so somebody can finish it.
Right now, though, in order to finish this during the summer, the priority has to be finishing off dead ends, not creating new ones. Each time a mapper makes a new area, they need to connect it to something, right? We need to make sure that the area only has one exit. If we mwke sure that exits from new areas <= entrances to said areas, we'll solve the spiderweb problem.
You going through and playing them would be a good thing, and I'd like to see that list. Once I get the files, I will too.
Basically, I know what happened this time that didn't happen the first ZDCMP.
The first ZDCMP, we had a bunch of quick and highly skilled and experienced mappers. They went through and took one day each with the map to add their area. They were so good that they were able to put out a lot of high quality stuff during their one day, and make a large contribution to the map. The whole thing was done in about three months.
When ZDCMP2 came along, potential mappers (myself included) figured that in order to do the kind of stuff that the first crop was doing, they would have to work for a week or more. They started their room or area early, before it got to them. By the time their day came along, the area they were planning on adding their room onto was already taken, so they added a hallway and their area branching off in a different direction. This happened over and over again, until eventually, the entire map became nothing but a spiderweb of different building leading off into lost area with dead ends. Nobody knew what the map was supposed to do, and eventaully, it got to the size that people were afraid to work on it.
I had to sort some things out. Basically, all I did was count the number of dead ends that there were. In each dead end, I put a keycard, and locked the door to another dead end with it. Finally, I ran out of keycards, so I started putting down batteries, and scripted a door that would only open if you found all four. After I did that, the level had a flow again, and once I put up a walkthrough, people felt confortable mapping again. The thing still looks like a spiderweb, though.
That being said, there were many doors that lead into walls, or simply didn't open. Sometimes, I put a keycard or a battery in front of the door. When the person finished up what was on the other side of the door, they made a suitable receptacle for the battery or keycard and move it into their area, changing a door that leads nowhere into a definete endpoint. Other times, I just left it as is. Right now, anytime there is a building without an interior or a door that is pointless, I point it out so somebody can finish it.
Right now, though, in order to finish this during the summer, the priority has to be finishing off dead ends, not creating new ones. Each time a mapper makes a new area, they need to connect it to something, right? We need to make sure that the area only has one exit. If we mwke sure that exits from new areas <= entrances to said areas, we'll solve the spiderweb problem.
-
Shadelight
- Posts: 5113
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:16 am
- Location: Labrynna
Ok Talanos, I need two things, or one other thing:
An e-mail address for you and one that can take massive files (all this in a RAR would weigh in pretty big)
An ok to host the files on rapidshare (not something I'd normally do, but I can't think of anywhere else.)
I suppose I can PM you a rapidshare link, but the d/l will probably be a real killer.
An e-mail address for you and one that can take massive files (all this in a RAR would weigh in pretty big)
An ok to host the files on rapidshare (not something I'd normally do, but I can't think of anywhere else.)
I suppose I can PM you a rapidshare link, but the d/l will probably be a real killer.
Hmm... Well, if you'd like, I can play around with cleaning (Or complicating... Heh) the DECORATE file, if you'd like. I've had the... (dis)pleasure of having to remake dehacked weapons in DECORATE, so it's no biggie to me.
As far as the mapping itself is concerned, I personally don't want to do anything mapping related until I am done with my own project (No need for anymore delays on that- Unless I come up with a killer standalone idea somehow). But, as I said, I'm free for some coding changes. Just get me the most recent versions, and I'll play around with it a bit.
As for different gametypes, my own experiences have told me that, after scripting w/ single-player in mind, it's WAY too much of a headache to go back and make it compatible with other gametypes. If you really wanna get it done this summer, I'd say forget about other gametypes.
'Course, it's not really my say, but just IMO...
As far as the mapping itself is concerned, I personally don't want to do anything mapping related until I am done with my own project (No need for anymore delays on that- Unless I come up with a killer standalone idea somehow). But, as I said, I'm free for some coding changes. Just get me the most recent versions, and I'll play around with it a bit.
As for different gametypes, my own experiences have told me that, after scripting w/ single-player in mind, it's WAY too much of a headache to go back and make it compatible with other gametypes. If you really wanna get it done this summer, I'd say forget about other gametypes.
'Course, it's not really my say, but just IMO...
I'd love to have you work on converting the dehacked weapons into decorate. I'd offer Xaser, since they were origionally his, but he declined last time. Once we get the wad sorted out, I'll make sure you get it.
When you remake the weapons, feel free to modify them. Doing a straight dehacked to decorate, at least, in my opinion, ignores the reason we fought so hard to get decorate weapons in the first place. Feel free to give them cool altfires or whatever. I'll officially turn the weapons over to you, and you can use your creative control however you see fit.
I think that right now the map isn't too far away from being co-op compatible. I could be wrong. I'll have to take a look and see.
When you remake the weapons, feel free to modify them. Doing a straight dehacked to decorate, at least, in my opinion, ignores the reason we fought so hard to get decorate weapons in the first place. Feel free to give them cool altfires or whatever. I'll officially turn the weapons over to you, and you can use your creative control however you see fit.
I think that right now the map isn't too far away from being co-op compatible. I could be wrong. I'll have to take a look and see.
Here's the problems I see with co-op compatability ATM:
The intro scene doesn't look very co-op compatible.
The bit where the big cyberdemon is shon, and when it gets nuked (I don't know how well that will work out, we'd need to try)
Some possible other things, but thats doubtful. There's not all that much more that might break anything.
Ok Talanos, let's see how good your email is
EDIT: 10.8MB! I'll be surprised if that makes it...
The intro scene doesn't look very co-op compatible.
The bit where the big cyberdemon is shon, and when it gets nuked (I don't know how well that will work out, we'd need to try)
Some possible other things, but thats doubtful. There's not all that much more that might break anything.
Ok Talanos, let's see how good your email is
EDIT: 10.8MB! I'll be surprised if that makes it...