Obligatory Legacy of Rust/ Nightdive Doom Port thread

[AliciaPendragon]

While I have zero clue if this is the right place for a thread like this(As I stick primarily to the gameplay mods section for mods to play with)

So. That new Doom and Doom II update today. I not only did not expect it but a brand new episode for Doom??? With new monsters and new weapons??? Well fuck.

from my brief experience, I am enjoying Legacy of Rust so far, but I do have a few gripes. On top of the new stuff(the ID Vault is so cool), but well

- I wish they added The Community Soundtrack as an option, as imo I believe more people should listen to it
- The weapons should be a bit more unique. Sucks that you cant have the Plasma Rifle, BFG and new weapons at the same time
- The new enemies dont have a name? IDK if thats an issue on GZDoom's end or if they're named weird b/c targetspy didnt give me a name and when I died to one, it didnt tell me what I died to.
- There's apparantly a custom intermission screen but it doesnt show up in GZDoom for whatever reason.

Overall its pretty good but what do peeps think of it?

[DarkkOne]

Which files from my steam folder do I need to play it properly in GZDoom?

[Gez]

- The weapons should be a bit more unique. Sucks that you cant have the Plasma Rifle, BFG and new weapons at the same time

That's a limit of using DEHACKED, even with all the new stuff added to it with DSDHacked and MBF21.

- The new enemies dont have a name? IDK if thats an issue on GZDoom's end or if they're named weird b/c targetspy didnt give me a name and when I died to one, it didnt tell me what I died to.

They have names, but they don't have the Tag property that mods like targetspy use.

- There's apparantly a custom intermission screen but it doesnt show up in GZDoom for whatever reason.

Yes, it's not using the same intermission script format as ZDoom. Their own format is all json-based.

Also there's a bug in GZDoom currently that makes one of the monsters completely harmless. The A_RadiusDamage codepointer is broken.

Which files from my steam folder do I need to play it properly in GZDoom?

id1.wad should contain everything needed.

[AliciaPendragon]

- The weapons should be a bit more unique. Sucks that you cant have the Plasma Rifle, BFG and new weapons at the same time

That's a limit of using DEHACKED, even with all the new stuff added to it with DSDHacked and MBF21.

- The new enemies dont have a name? IDK if thats an issue on GZDoom's end or if they're named weird b/c targetspy didnt give me a name and when I died to one, it didnt tell me what I died to.

They have names, but they don't have the Tag property that mods like targetspy use.

- There's apparantly a custom intermission screen but it doesnt show up in GZDoom for whatever reason.

Yes, it's not using the same intermission script format as ZDoom. Their own format is all json-based.

Also there's a bug in GZDoom currently that makes one of the monsters completely harmless. The A_RadiusDamage codepointer is broken.

Which files from my steam folder do I need to play it properly in GZDoom?

id1.wad should contain everything needed.

Huh. IDK why they used Dehacked but at the very least the Calamity Blade made up for how dissapointing the Incinerator was. As for the tag property not being used and the intermission script being different, damn. Here's hoping that'll be fixed in an update as from what i've seen the intermission screen is cool.

And weird. IDK which monster has that bug so I probably didnt experience it.

Also editing my post rq: Looking over someone playing Deathmatch and I noticed that the hud there was different for the ammo counter, showing fuel and cell at the same time. IDK why they couldn't have both exist at the same time if they were able to have two seperate ammo counters for it, but ah well.

[Gez]

The new weapons are intended to be new weapons, not replacement, but the need to fit the QuakeCon deadline means that the work needed for that is not completely finished yet.

A "tag" property for DEHACKED is a good suggestion for further community evolutions of the standard; at the moment it just doesn't exist.

The buggy monster is the banshee, the screaming head in its cloud of blood. It's supposed to hurt you when close and when it explodes. But a data type mismatch in the current implementation of A_RadiusDamage in GZDoom causes the reach of its attacks to be divided by 65536. It's been fixed in the GitHub repository now, so new development versions of GZDoom should work correctly. The other bug that needs solving is in the implementation of A_PlaySound because some new objects used for ambient sounds are just silent in GZDoom.

[Protozoare]

I've noticed some of the new content does not work, or is in DECOHACKED and DEHACKED format. I wish someone would port the new stuff fully into Gzdoom, so that you can have all the new content and still enjoy your plasma weapons. After one day of waiting I got bored of it, and started a port to DECORATE of the new monsters, currently the Ghoul (alpha lost soul) is done. I know Zscript is preferred, and I use zscript in my mods, but most realm 667 monsters have DECORATE code. Maybe I will write a Zscript file as well.
Id Software provided the wads with the DEHACKED content for doomers to use in maps, so I guess it is ok for players to edit them. If you want, I could post the wad of the Ghoul and you'll have to tell me if I got anything wrong. There seems to be a ghoul attack and shotx sound referenced in the original file, but in game all I hear is the doomimp fireball sounds. The mentioned sounds are nowhere to be found in the game files. There is also a second cropped version of the death sound included. Also, the reason for the monsters having no names is that they have no obituary as far as I can see, so I added that as well. I've heard that in the new port there is no killfeed on deathmatches, which threw some people off.

[Dynamo]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I assume GZDoom implementation of this new standard is in the cards, right? Even if no ETA can naturally be given at this point.

[Gez]

There should probably be a thread in the feature suggestion forum.


To be honest, some of the stuff in the ID24 specs are just kind of annoying? For example, they wanted to canonize a few new custom monsters, but without taking up existing dehacked slots, and since DSDHacked means that all of the slots exists, then they had to go and... implement negative slots now? That's quite a headache. Honestly I wish they'd have just implemented some bare-bones DECORATE version and allowed their new monsters to exist outside of DEHACKED and its inherent awfulness.

Outside of negative DEHACKED fuckery, the rest is mostly okay IMO.

[Dynamo]

Well, if I had to guess, this particularity about the negative IDs can be translated into ZScript or some such, so it shouldn't be a big deal in terms of the conversion ideally, at least from my limited knowledge.

[dpJudas]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't have any plans on implementing ID24. Not because I have anything against the spec - it just isn't something that interests me. I'm pretty sure that in general there's nobody against GZDoom gaining the features though. It really comes down to whether someone is willing to put in the work.

[Gez]

Well, if I had to guess, this particularity about the negative IDs can be translated into ZScript or some such, so it shouldn't be a big deal in terms of the conversion ideally, at least from my limited knowledge.

I'm not saying implementation is impossible; I'm saying this is tossing another hack atop what is already an ungodly pile of hacks layered on top of each other in a gargantuan jenga tower of jank designed by MC Escher on ayahuasca.

[Rachael]

To me the biggest barrier of implementing ID24 is the moving target issue. MBF21 wasn't enough? - fine, you want extensions to the engine, but seriously, there's ports that have already done that - the original ZDoom and Eternity Engine just to name a couple. Why aren't we adopting one of their standards? Why are we trying to push to the entire community "one standard to rule them all" when it's just - well as Gez puts it - "another hack atop what is already an ungodly pile of hacks layered on top of each other in a gargantuan jenga tower of jank designed by MC Escher on ayahuasca" - statements like this really do not speak well to the standard and also does not speak well to the health of the Doom community if the standard of these standards are the ones that we have to follow. There's much more polished solutions and they aren't that hard to implement. If you hate ZDoom then *at least* consider EDF.

[yum13241]

There should probably be a thread in the feature suggestion forum.


To be honest, some of the stuff in the ID24 specs are just kind of annoying? For example, they wanted to canonize a few new custom monsters, but without taking up existing dehacked slots, and since DSDHacked means that all of the slots exists, then they had to go and... implement negative slots now? That's quite a headache. Honestly I wish they'd have just implemented some bare-bones DECORATE version and allowed their new monsters to exist outside of DEHACKED and its inherent awfulness.

Outside of negative DEHACKED fuckery, the rest is mostly okay IMO.

I don't think any port would try to implement DECORATE (or even DECOLITE, as some random standard floating around DWF is called) because you basically have to turn your port into ZDoom, and the fact that people have DECORATE trauma. It's not bad for basic stuff, but for anything remotely complex A_JumpIfInventory() is the most used codepointer which makes DECORATE scripting a MESS, and user variables aren't gonna happen either. Then there's gonna be some guy who tries porting Brutal Doom.

And no one is going to implement DDF because Eternity Engine takes an eternity to update. (I don't hate EE)

I think it's about time we moved on from DEHACKED, it's a giant HACK. Besides, what's stopping me from just using the negative slots myself? Let's not forget that id reserved some linedef types to themselves. It would've made sense to use negative linedefs there, at least stay consistent lol.

If you like DEHACKED for some reason, then let's make UNHACKED where instead of thing type numbers we have names, and everything has an infinite number of possible frames, and anonymous functions can exist.

ID24 is a weird spec. At this point I think a spec update to ID24.666 is needed if we want to keep modding integrity possible.

[Gez]

I don't think any port would try to implement DECORATE (or even DECOLITE, as some random standard floating around DWF is called) because you basically have to turn your port into ZDoom

Absolutely not; DECORATE is not ZScript. In fact, you can use DECORATE in vanilla Doom nowadays!

and the fact that people have DECORATE trauma. It's not bad for basic stuff, but for anything remotely complex A_JumpIfInventory() is the most used codepointer which makes DECORATE scripting a MESS

And DEHACKED is better?

At the moment, the best way to use DEHACKED is to use DoomTools, a suite of utility that contains a very nifty thing called "DECOHACK" that allows to compile a DEHACKED lump from clean, readable source code that looks very much like DECORATE. So why not skip the middle man and have the port read DECOHACK source code instead of writing that source code, translating it with DoomTools into DEHACKED, and then having the port read DEHACKED?

Doom actors are pretty simple state machines. You can have at most one instruction per state. Hence all the jump fuckery. The solution is, like ZScript, to allow to define entirely new functions; but this is the point where you actually force people to turn their ports into ZDoom.

[Rachael]

And all of this still ignores the biggest problem - nobody who wants to keep their sanity is going to do any work towards the ID24 spec until the spec is finalized and the dust has had a chance to settle, unless they have some idea what is already finalized and what is still being worked on. Otherwise you might have to keep doing any number of fixes, big or small, to accommodate the changes, when you could have just saved yourself a lot of time and effort by simply waiting. Everything published thus far seems preliminary and subject to change right now.