[Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

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ZikShadow
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[Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by ZikShadow »




DESCRIPTION:

Reds Over World is a very intriguing mod. It's very ambitious, with a lot of fascinating qualities to it. Throughout my journeys, I can see heart put into a lot of its construction, and while there are some holes on the road, most of it has been a somewhat interesting journey. However, I can't deny that there are some design decisions that permeate throughout the entire mod that I find myself disagreeing immensely with. Multiple times, actually.

I thought about making a complaint regarding these concerns, but figured after reading the main thread for a bit that it's very likely that my design philosophies would probably clash with how the mod is intended to be designed. Rather than whine into the aether and maybe only get a quarter of my concerns addressed, I figured I'd try cobbling up something myself to help my own run. It has helped, so I figured why not release it for interested parties. It might help them as well. If nothing else, it'd be a reason to replay the mod again with a different perspective.

Also, for a little extra, wirejammers if you wanna play ROWAn with regular Doom 2 maps. You can't play using vanilla ROW actors with these, but hey, it's something to extend the playtime.


There's a fair bit that this addon goes through, it sure is a list:
Spoiler:

Regarding installation, it's not gonna be like patching the original mod, I promise. Just launch z_ROWAn.pk3 after RedsOverWorld.pk3. Haven't tested to see if it'll work with the unpatched version, so keep an eye out for that. Also not sure what'll happen once the 2.0 patch rolls around. I'll adjust if I can.


DOWNLOAD:

DEFCON? I hardly knew 'er!

Wirejammers!


SCREENSHOTS:
Spoiler:

VIDEOS:
Spoiler:

CREDITS:

Due to how large the credits size is, I've placed it all in the README that is inside the archive.
I'm certain I got most of them, though there are probably some stuff I could miss. Feel free to remind me of those ones.
Last edited by ZikShadow on Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
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WojtTheDoomer2K
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by WojtTheDoomer2K »

Author here, and hot tamale, this looks phenomenal! I am in shock with just the amount of work you put into this, makes me seriously consider if releasing my official bug-fixed improved 2.0 version is ever worth it, if a guy like you is out there doing job much better than me, especially with the HUD, as I never was good with HUDs!

Out of curiosity, which voicelines did you change?
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Tyrannotitan Fan
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by Tyrannotitan Fan »

O JASNY SKURWYSYN
That looks cool
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WojtTheDoomer2K
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by WojtTheDoomer2K »

I am absolutely blown away by the sheer effort you did here, way better than anything I could EVER do to help my own mod, so I have a few questions for you.

Are you okay with me utilizing certain contents of this patch in my official 2.0 version of the mod, and getting inspired by some other elements of it to implement my own changes? You will be fully credited, BTW. And im not gonna just copy everything 100%.

And also, if possible, coudl you please send me via a PM all the bugs, irritating moments and softlocks you found? Because I wanna be sure I am fixing everyhting that's able to be fixed.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by ZikShadow »

I believe I replaced Hannibal's, the first boss you meet in E3M3, the Chinese lines, American lines (both infantry and gasmasked ones), the Arabic lines, the player (to differentiate it from BoA's), and the STALKER bandit lines used for some of the Soviet soldiers. I would like to have more native language speeches instead of accented English (or shared lines in general) for enemies in other countries like the Romanians, Yugoslavians, North Koreans, and so on, but I currently do not possess the assets for such an endeavor.

I don't mind, go right ahead. Just keep all the credits intact. I may have cobbled the lot myself, but I couldn't do it without the assets from the folks I've named there. I don't do namedumps for a reason.

As for major complaints, I've already named most of them in the list above.

There are some things that I would like to add further, but couldn't without accruing modification debt (assuming ROW's own patch'll come along and overhaul things, I don't wanna have to spend too long reappropriating its internals to ROWAn's stuff). Stuff like:

Code: Select all

- Having enemies' flinch states a few tics longer. Would've required a full bestiary overhaul.
- I think E6M1's prisoners don't drop any ammo when they die. Rabbit hole to said overhaul above.
- The part I mentioned at the very top about unique locale lines. No assets, and also see above.
- Putting cracks near fire extinguishers so players can tell that they need to destroy those to progress. Significant map editing.
- An objectives screen so the player'll know what to do next. There's probably a way to do it the fancy way, but I would've just added another menu bar to the top left and have an ACS message permanently plastered there as you finish objectives. See above.
- Clarification on dialogue so player won't have to run around blindly trying to decipher the handlers' instructions. See above.
- There was that one bit in E1M5 where you're supposed to go through a window, but the frames are still there, so players wouldn't know that they're supposed to jump through. See above.
- Fix bomb scripts that don't do bomba takeinventories, resulting in the HUD counter not getting reduced. See above.
- Reduce sudden point-blank ambushes with no cover (always assume that the player has terrible health before doing those). See above.
- Getting rid of the damaging cable linedefs in E1M4. Yep, still above.
- Having more allies in the field to imply you're actually in a war and not fighting alone. You fight with the SAS once and atleast one Soviet ally in A51. I cannot remember for the life of me if there's more than those. See above.
- I think you forgot to have Lev Surov use a unique health bar. The name still says Red Juggernaut. See above.
- E6M1 has some broken boss health bars as well, I think. One doesn't disappear while the other has the bar go through the element itself. As before.
- Maybe something to fill off the Chekov's Gun that Soviet Act 2 suggested. Was fully expecting a protag vs protag climactic fight in Europe Act 2, something like a regular sized boss that uses a lot of A_FastChase to vary up the usual BIG Wolf3D-esque DUDE roster, but that didn't happen. Either that, or it did happen, and it was such a non-event that I didn't notice. I did cobble up an experimental addon, but again, would've been accruing editing debt for future patches, so it wasn't implemented in ROWAn.
[] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/763583465110241291/1227247818956210207/gzdoom_2024-04-09_20-20-49-16.mp4?ex=6627b699&is=66154199&hm=82d405afe21b6b66189ac66b4c1b2f68ca21984ef5b0df1cc4846c323dd4aa3b&
PresBarackbar
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by PresBarackbar »

As someone who really liked the original mod despite how flawed it is, this certainly makes it far more pleasant to play. Its much less frustrating than the original, kudos!
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WojtTheDoomer2K
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by WojtTheDoomer2K »

ZikShadow wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:30 pm I believe I replaced Hannibal's, the first boss you meet in E3M3, the Chinese lines, American lines (both infantry and gasmasked ones), the Arabic lines, the player (to differentiate it from BoA's), and the STALKER bandit lines used for some of the Soviet soldiers. I would like to have more native language speeches instead of accented English (or shared lines in general) for enemies in other countries like the Romanians, Yugoslavians, North Koreans, and so on, but I currently do not possess the assets for such an endeavor.

I don't mind, go right ahead. Just keep all the credits intact. I may have cobbled the lot myself, but I couldn't do it without the assets from the folks I've named there. I don't do namedumps for a reason.

As for major complaints, I've already named most of them in the list above.

There are some things that I would like to add further, but couldn't without accruing modification debt (assuming ROW's own patch'll come along and overhaul things, I don't wanna have to spend too long reappropriating its internals to ROWAn's stuff). Stuff like:

Code: Select all

- Having enemies' flinch states a few tics longer. Would've required a full bestiary overhaul.
- I think E6M1's prisoners don't drop any ammo when they die. Rabbit hole to said overhaul above.
- The part I mentioned at the very top about unique locale lines. No assets, and also see above.
- Putting cracks near fire extinguishers so players can tell that they need to destroy those to progress. Significant map editing.
- An objectives screen so the player'll know what to do next. There's probably a way to do it the fancy way, but I would've just added another menu bar to the top left and have an ACS message permanently plastered there as you finish objectives. See above.
- Clarification on dialogue so player won't have to run around blindly trying to decipher the handlers' instructions. See above.
- There was that one bit in E1M5 where you're supposed to go through a window, but the frames are still there, so players wouldn't know that they're supposed to jump through. See above.
- Fix bomb scripts that don't do bomba takeinventories, resulting in the HUD counter not getting reduced. See above.
- Reduce sudden point-blank ambushes with no cover (always assume that the player has terrible health before doing those). See above.
- Getting rid of the damaging cable linedefs in E1M4. Yep, still above.
- Having more allies in the field to imply you're actually in a war and not fighting alone. You fight with the SAS once and atleast one Soviet ally in A51. I cannot remember for the life of me if there's more than those. See above.
- I think you forgot to have Lev Surov use a unique health bar. The name still says Red Juggernaut. See above.
- E6M1 has some broken boss health bars as well, I think. One doesn't disappear while the other has the bar go through the element itself. As before.
- Maybe something to fill off the Chekov's Gun that Soviet Act 2 suggested. Was fully expecting a protag vs protag climactic fight in Europe Act 2, something like a regular sized boss that uses a lot of A_FastChase to vary up the usual BIG Wolf3D-esque DUDE roster, but that didn't happen. Either that, or it did happen, and it was such a non-event that I didn't notice. I did cobble up an experimental addon, but again, would've been accruing editing debt for future patches, so it wasn't implemented in ROWAn.
[] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/763583465110241291/1227247818956210207/gzdoom_2024-04-09_20-20-49-16.mp4?ex=6627b699&is=66154199&hm=82d405afe21b6b66189ac66b4c1b2f68ca21984ef5b0df1cc4846c323dd4aa3b&
That is a lot of really useful stuff I could fix in 2.0 (some of those pinpoints I already fixed, heh), thanks a lot! But perhaps may I ask you for help with coding a few things, namely the 2.0 version's HUD? I can tell you're good at SBARINFO and all that stuff, and I could send you a DM with a mockup on how I envision it.

Also, by flinch state, you mean the "Pain" state?

Plus, I DID plan a battle in E6M5, with the player fighting Yuri, because I really liked that concept, seems like we think alike. Perhaps I will add this to the 2.0 version, because it was a really good idea that went into the bin for no reason.

As for the unique voice-lines for Romanians, North Koreans and Yugoslavs, the issue is that there just isn't enough "native" voicelines out there. There were North Koreans in Crisis, so maybe something could be done with that. I personally am fine with the campy voicelines, as the ROW universe is meant to be a bit wacky. The only ones I could've replaced 100% are the ALLAHU AKBAAAR yells of the Afghani Mudjahideen, admittedly they're a leftover from the early days of the mod and they're literally just 2 voiceclips repeated one after another, and there are a lot of better voices they could have; I could either go for your replacements, or use the GLA infantry lines from Generals.

The Soviet lines I really do wanna change myself, especially on scientists (Someone who finished Moscow University and spent 10+ years in academic study of biology and who read a thousand of books, even if they were Lysenko's pseudoscience, sounding like a gopnik is really weird); I planned the idea of each Soviet soldier "type" having a unique voicebank; the S.T.A.L.K.E.R bandit one would be left in only for the weakest helmetless bald soldiers, as I always imagined them being just recently-conscritped street thugs, hooligans and lowlifes; new recruits in the army.


Also here's why the guns in ROW were the way they are and how I plan to fix them.

While I was interested in history and especially military history since I was a child, in terms of military stuff, I was never a "gun" guy. I was more always a tank/vehicle guy, so I was never too attentive in terms of detail. I don't want to steal your work 100%, and I believe that my selection of weapons can be improved.

-First off, im seriously considering adding those different ammo types everyone wanted. They'll be like this - Pistol Clips (For Pistol and MP5SD), NATO ammo (For M4), Soviet ammo (For AK-74) and P90 clips (For P90)
-Second, im gonna potentially increase the AK 74's firing speed, this is something I saw people complaining about in the livestream.
-Im gonna potentially increase (just by a bit) the damage dealt by M4.
-Im gonna make P90 fire a bit faster, as it's a SMG, not a machinegun (It's a long story as to why it's even there tbh).
-Removing that double scope from SVD. It was something that was pissing me off as well and was literally for no reason there, but I was worried that I'd screw up the code by removing it (It's from a Realm667 weapon).
-Gonna make the laser rifle more accurate.
-Possibly gonna add a alt-fire to the Desolator Cannon, firing a small atomic bomb that irradiates an area for several seconds dealing massive damage to enemies. This is something I planned in 2021 but thought it'd be too OP.
-Gonna make the knife a seriously formidable weapon; changed it's basic damage from 5 to 10, and made it swing faster, now it's speed is kinda like the Opposing Force knife.

What do you think of these changes?
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by ZikShadow »

- I wouldn't say that I'm that good at SBARINFO, considering part of why the magazine counters work is the whole overhaul of the weapons system. Y'see, part of why I didn't volunteer when you put out that call out for folks to help with a mag counter on vanilla ROW's weapons is because my SBARINFO checks for both ammo1 and ammo2, both of which are defined in the weapons code themselves. If I were to cobble up something to check for vanilla ROW's mag counts (i.e. AKStrzelil, M16Strzelil, etc), I'd have to at the very least revamp the entire weapons code to have the Strzelils as AmmoType1 and the total ammo pool as AmmoType2, adjusting accordingly in the weapon states themselves. I mentioned before that the original code checks if you hit the max for that inventory token rather than jumping if there's none of them, and that's gonna reflect on the HUD with the mag counter going up rather than down. I didn't wanna go down a rabbit hole of doing an overhaul for a set of weapons I don't find myself agreeing with in the first place, sorry.

- Yeah, pain states. I find myself occasionally still catching a stray round when kniving someone, and considering I've done all I can to make the knife deal as much damage as fast as possible, it's probably likely caused by enemies having nearly unnoticeable flinching. Different from even something like Wolf3D where you could stun lower tier enemies enough to jab them again with the knife.

- Well, as I already said, I somewhat share the sentiment that some camp is alright (though it was annoying hearing the same GOD IS GREAT callouts over and over again). At the same time, it's just nice to have native language speakers when the player is in various regions. It's not just for camp reasons, it provides variety and the player can recognize that they're fighting an entirely different division of enemies. Optics is just as important as the internals, no?

- I wouldn't know how those changes go until I play the mod with those changes themselves. You're probably the only person that can figure out if those changes are a good idea in the first place, particularly when you have to contend to them for some of the rougher encounters. I've already made my counter-argument with ROWAn regarding where I think the weapons direction should go.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by WojtTheDoomer2K »

ZikShadow wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:56 am - I wouldn't say that I'm that good at SBARINFO, considering part of why the magazine counters work is the whole overhaul of the weapons system. Y'see, part of why I didn't volunteer when you put out that call out for folks to help with a mag counter on vanilla ROW's weapons is because my SBARINFO checks for both ammo1 and ammo2, both of which are defined in the weapons code themselves. If I were to cobble up something to check for vanilla ROW's mag counts (i.e. AKStrzelil, M16Strzelil, etc), I'd have to at the very least revamp the entire weapons code to have the Strzelils as AmmoType1 and the total ammo pool as AmmoType2, adjusting accordingly in the weapon states themselves. I mentioned before that the original code checks if you hit the max for that inventory token rather than jumping if there's none of them, and that's gonna reflect on the HUD with the mag counter going up rather than down. I didn't wanna go down a rabbit hole of doing an overhaul for a set of weapons I don't find myself agreeing with in the first place, sorry.

- Yeah, pain states. I find myself occasionally still catching a stray round when kniving someone, and considering I've done all I can to make the knife deal as much damage as fast as possible, it's probably likely caused by enemies having nearly unnoticeable flinching. Different from even something like Wolf3D where you could stun lower tier enemies enough to jab them again with the knife.

- Well, as I already said, I somewhat share the sentiment that some camp is alright (though it was annoying hearing the same GOD IS GREAT callouts over and over again). At the same time, it's just nice to have native language speakers when the player is in various regions. It's not just for camp reasons, it provides variety and the player can recognize that they're fighting an entirely different division of enemies. Optics is just as important as the internals, no?

- I wouldn't know how those changes go until I play the mod with those changes themselves. You're probably the only person that can figure out if those changes are a good idea in the first place, particularly when you have to contend to them for some of the rougher encounters. I've already made my counter-argument with ROWAn regarding where I think the weapons direction should go.

Great news, I already updated the firing speed of all three basic assault rifles, and the difference is night and day, they really do feel much better when you fire from them and much more satisfying! They really were too slow in the original. And now I gotta make those flinch frames last longer and work on that double-scope of the SVD.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by Void Warrior »

Wow! When I saw this addon and what changes were made, I'm not surprised that WojtTheDoomer2K paid attention to it. HUDs screenshots alone sold this addon.

It should be appreciated!
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by ZikShadow »

Rediscovered how Inventory.InterHubAmount works. Surprised I forgot how that actor flag works, considering I used it in CaHD. Bah. You can now carry all portable medkits you got to the next map, though to compensate, all of them heal for 20HP now. 80HP total rather than 100HP. Yeah, same 4 limit carry. This is still meant to be a bandage for rough map starts that forgot to restore the player's health to full, and starting off with 80HP extra rather than 25HP if you didn't waste all of the portameds is already a significant boon even without the extra 5 points. Also still 5 points total extra compared to vanilla.

On the bright side, it does feel less weird when you go from E6M5 to E6M5Z, keeping all your weapons and gear but losing your portable medkits for some reason. Doesn't do that anymore.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by WojtTheDoomer2K »

ZikShadow wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:40 pm Rediscovered how Inventory.InterHubAmount works. Surprised I forgot how that actor flag works, considering I used it in CaHD. Bah. You can now carry all portable medkits you got to the next map, though to compensate, all of them heal for 20HP now. 80HP total rather than 100HP. Yeah, same 4 limit carry. This is still meant to be a bandage for rough map starts that forgot to restore the player's health to full, and starting off with 80HP extra rather than 25HP if you didn't waste all of the portameds is already a significant boon even without the extra 5 points. Also still 5 points total extra compared to vanilla.

On the bright side, it does feel less weird when you go from E6M5 to E6M5Z, keeping all your weapons and gear but losing your portable medkits for some reason. Doesn't do that anymore.
Wait, some maps still don't heal the player fully? I thought I made it sure that all the maps heal the player to 100% when the map starts, except for E6M2, because of the helicopter crash plotpoint.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by ZikShadow »

E3M3, E3M4, E3M5, E4M2, E4M3, E5M2, E5M4, E6M3, E6M4, and E6M5.

It's quite a fair bit of "some", yeah. Practically most of the maps past the second episode.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by WojtTheDoomer2K »

ZikShadow wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:07 pm E3M3, E3M4, E3M5, E4M2, E4M3, E5M2, E5M4, E6M3, E6M4, and E6M5.

It's quite a fair bit of "some", yeah. Practically most of the maps past the second episode.
I swear, I added the beggining healing script to all of them... Oh well, thanks for noticing.
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Re: [Reds Over World] ROWAn - A Reds Over World Addon

Post by -Ghost- »

Not sure if this is just me, but the area the actual bullets come out of feels a hair too low. For example while shooting, I've noticed that I'll hit objects in front of my unless I aim a little high. A good spot to test it is the second Russian level, after you duck under the door near the start there's a sandbag area with an enemy in it. If you hop in there and aim at the back of the van across from you, you'll hit the sandbangs if you're aim is dead center or lower, so you have to shoot slightly above centered to fire over the sandbags. It's subtle but enough to make the shooting feel a bit off.
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