Hands of Necromancy [Full game released!]

[Ozymandias81]

Just a minor thing I have noticed, a missing 3d floor

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2818539250

[Emmanuelexe]

Just a minor thing I have noticed, a missing 3d floor

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2818539250

Thanks, what map is it, map01?
edit, found it, its map05

[Redneckerz]

Since it is listed as a option - Wouldn't the requirements for the minimum not be lowered from OpenGL 3.3 to anything with OpenGLEs 2.0?
Since you are using a custom Build with this enabled, why not promote it?

I did gave some feedback on DW, and will provide some more provided time allows it (Currently in the process of moving. Mid-july ill be moved over fully and i can get a detailed rapport up)

[Rachael]

OpenGL ES is not officially supported. You are missing features using that backend. We did not actively block the option since it does still technically run, and doesn't impact the experience in any meaningful way (a few objects are just less pretty is all) - but it's on the same status as running Windows 11 on an 11 year old machine. We will not actively suggest using that backend in any official capacity.

[Emmanuelexe]

We plan to make an update of the demo soon, saves are not guaranteed to work with gzdoom updates so be sure to not update your game or finish the game if you are close to do it!
The update will feature:
-Rework of the Ring of Ice.
-Volume ajusted for some sound effects, modified choices of some sound effects.
-Fixed bugs and flaws for the most.
-Balance of some weapons, buff of power and nerf of ammo items/max ammo.
and other things

[Graf Zahl]

Since it is listed as a option - Wouldn't the requirements for the minimum not be lowered from OpenGL 3.3 to anything with OpenGLEs 2.0?
Since you are using a custom Build with this enabled, why not promote it?

There's a difference between "minimum supported specs" and "absolute minimum this can run on", You set your "minimum supported specs" to what your customer support can reasonably handle. If you set your specs too low you will inevitably run into support problems later because you promised that it would work so you have to take care of it. Explicitly promoting it would even be commercial suicide, because that low end of the spectrum is people on ancient machines they most likely run because of their financial constraints making them even less likely to be paying customers - and if they buy anyway they'll hound you for every problem they experience.

TBH, if I released a game today with GZDoom I wouldn't even bother setting the minimum to anything less than OpenGL 4.2. Doing that will exclude all the lowest end crap in the market that'd create the worst performance issues that are most likely to reach customer support. (I also wouldn't bother with a Mac version because these also tend to be a hassle for customer support.)

[Rachael]

Graf pretty much echoed my thoughts to a tee.

And come to think of it there's no way OpenGL 3.3 hardware can run this game at the intended frame rate in every situation - setting the minimum requirement to OpenGL 4.2 at least sets a baseline with what we think would be the minimum hardware to have a good experience.

To be clear - we're not against people running this game on any hardware that it will run on. We just don't want to offer a commercial support line for it.

EDIT: In fact, I'm going to go head and bump the OpenGL minimum for this reason. Again - we're not going to block it from running on OpenGL 3.3 hardware, or even using OpenGL ES to run it on older hardware - this is more of a defensive measure for our tech support team when the game is released.

[RKD]

We plan to make an update of the demo soon

Awesome news! Also love the feedback others gave. I've just finished a 2nd run of the demo, this time on Master difficulty, and I got some more (hopefully) thoughtful feedback. May be a little outdated by now, so disregard whatever doesn't apply anymore.
It's frigging long, apologies in advance...

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• Agree with others in regards to "Ice Golem should be immune to ice".
• I like the fact that gargoyles, stone breakers, fishes and the few ghosts included in the demo give me reasons to take out the sword and go melee. Neat.
• Stone Golem is by far the most interesting enemy to fight against, and my fav in this demo, but its stomping attack radius really needs to match the shockwave animation. It's misleading and makes it look like the actual radius is twice or thrice the animation. I pondered what could possibly be the best approach for this, either nerfing the attack radius (probably easier) or expanding the animation. I think the latter would be ideal, even if it limits the usage of more than one golem in close quarter ambushes. Well... you can put two of these in front of players face but I'm not sure how many will find that fair, tbh. I've got the most fun with this enemy in normal difficulty, since fast monsters makes fighting even two at once really hard without receiving damage. Maybe add a short internal CD for the stomp (1-2 sec)? As it is, you can avoid one golem stomp but not the other if there's two of them. There's just not enough margin to do that. In consequence, fast monsters makes these guys less incentive to melee. If that is intended I'll take it, though. Also, really minor in comparison, but fast monsters also makes the walking animation of these golems pretty hilarious. I honestly feel the slow walking should be unaltered in hard mode. I mean, they're bulky and heavy, it just would make more sense visually.
• Cultists could have colored robes. I know brown and gray look more cultist-ish but it would make them less of a pain to visualize while also looking less generic (red, purple, green, blue, etc). Granted, it's possible to just wait for them to shoot at you...
• On projectiles sprites, would you guys consider to add light/glow/bright to them? I'm refering to snake venom and cultist fireballs, specifically (ice projectile from ice golem looks fine and thrown bones from zombies don't really need visual feedback with all the clacking noises those make instead). Having the venom/fireballs glow would serve two purposes, imo: Looking cool and magical while also providing a better feedback in underwater/dark places (more than once I kept getting hit by barely visible snakes with their barely visible spits ).
• Not really a fan of all enemies having 100% pain chance regardless of the weapon used. It makes them look weak and cuts off a good chunk of challenge when you can stun-lock anything with your wimpy weapons. Maybe have different pain chances either per monster basis, per damage type or per weapon? Having said that, tho, I do admit hard mode was somewhat more doable because of how it currently is... Still not a fan but, just saying.

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• I thought the Ice Ring was the most solid weapon available but I'm excited to see the rework, nonetheless!
• What do you guys think about giving the sword a faster "ready" state? I mean the ammount of time that takes to switch from other weapons to the sword, not from the sword to other weapons. When thinking about the fast monsters experience™, I did find this weapon more awkward to use. In normal, whenever you find a melee monster, there's plenty of time to take out the sword and engage. Fast monsters makes these guys to immediately close the distance and attack, waaaay faster than you're able to respond. And, oh boi, they can deplet your life in a blink. I present this suggestion because I never end up using melee weapons in gzdoom games (it's always better to go pew-pew) but this one actually gives incentive to go that route. I think it's one of its strong points combat-wise but gets sadly shaded in hard mode, at least from what I've noticed in my playthrough.
• Tornado spell is kinda clunky but I love the concept. I noticed that, if you manage to stun-lock enemies by pushing them against certain walls, it's possible to kill low-mid tier enemies with just one tornado, so I wouldn't say it's weak but rather inconsistent with its height trajectory or physics, whichever applies. I read others suggesting changes for this one (auto-homing to enemies would be great) and here goes mine: It could also act as a "proximity" trap. Instead of having them fly away, they could travel a mid-range distance (idk... 128 map units?) or until colliding with a monster, stay there and suck enemies in. This would make at least one of the early weapons a crowd control purpose different to the ice ring (ultimately giving the chance to throw more enemies in certain encounters just fine from a mapping perspective, imo). Of course, I don't know how the ice ring rework will be, so maybe this idea conflicts with that. Oh, well... Btw, I'm not a fan of tornadoes flinging enemies away in random directions (it tends to be more annoying than anything) but if you want to keep that feature, I'd want to suggest stone golems being less able to be swung, and I think you can achieve that behaviour by setting a bigger mass in the actor. You know, they're heavy and bulky... I started avoiding using this weapon against those enemies after trying to push them away and the tornado kept flinging them in my direction just to be stomped for the tenth time.
• Not really weapons but both transformations have infinite ammo. I'm a little worried that some parts could be easily cheesed by using transformations. I feel a mix between timed+consumption could work more in balance. I mean something like: if you attack, you consume "ammo" as it is right now, but if you stay idle, the reserves starts depleting (1 per 2 sec, for example) instead of recharging. I know the snake one is used to enter tiny passages but, say it lasts 1 minute total, it's plenty of time to get out of the passage or just swap back to necromancer, wait the CD a few secs and resume the snake transformation. If the player lets the transformation to wear out while in a tricky situation, dying could easily pass as player's fault, depending on the way it's handled.

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This next part is a mix of smaller suggestions that kicked off from one thought: I'm sorry if I'm bold, but these weapons and items need less "so literal" (and boring) names... so hereby present to you a list of name changes suggestions (and maybe a few more things that came out as byproduct):

• Red potion = Health potion/Rejuvenation potion
• Yellow potion = Rejuvenation Elixir (and change its color to lilac/purple, which is way more easily identifiable with its use given the RPG-esque nature of the setting)
• Berserker Hand, Berserker Head, Ghost Head = There's a repetitive pattern here. I'd cut it by changing Berserker Head to be an "Amulet of Warden", "Guardian Heart", "Shield of Something"/"Something Shield", anything else that can be easier to associate to its effect. Sadly, this would require a new sprite.
• Crystal of Life = Not much, maybe Crystal of Salvation. It's good as it is. Also, love the spritework in this and the ghost head.
• Tornado Spell = Book of Wind, Wind's Rage
• Tornado Spell ammo/Large (...) = Wind Page, Lost Page, Scattered Page, A collection of lost pages, A bundle of wind/scattered pages. Maybe "bookpage" instead of "page"?
• Ice Ring = Actually, I think you can get away with its current name just fine.
• Ice Ring ammo/Large (...) = Cold Shard, Cold Crystal, Frozen Shard, Frozen Crystal, even maybe add "Big"/"Large" to the "Frozen" versions: Cold Shard, Large Frozen Crystal.
• Fireball staff = Flaming Gem, Ruby Orb, Crematorium... hmm, maybe that one is too cool? Oh, I know! Ashbringer! Wait, no... That's definitely too cool for your starter pew-pew. Actually, I kinda like "Crematorium" for an all-time fire-based weapon that a necromancer would carry everywhere...
• Fireball staff ammo/Large (...) = It depends? Flame essence, Ruby fragment, Fire essence...
• Magical Sword = Everything but "Magical Sword"... this one is an awesome weapon. Soul's Edge. There, cool af but humble enough.

Now, there's a reason why I listed backwards the weapons and it's to prove how fun can be to name stuff and how they can retroactively kick off other ideas. "Soul's Edge" was the very first name that came to my mind. Didn't think more than 2 seconds. Still, I tried to figure it out if this name would make sense (and be totallynotcringe): Why is it called Soul's Edge? What if this sword feds upon the souls of those killed by it? It sounds necromancer-y, sure. Let's continue. What if the ammo pickup were soul shards/crystals/gems? What if cultists dropped this ammo upon death? You know, makes sense since they appear to still be humans. This reminds me that I didn't mention I'd like to see at least some enemies dropping pickups... Anyways, if these are crystal thingies, why not reuse the ice ammo, flip it upside-down, recolor it and use that instead of the bare blue square called "magical sword ammo"? Which, again, sorry for being bold, but it sounds boring... "ammo" and "sword" in the same sentence sounds contradictory even (unless it's a gunsword, which is not).
And there you have it! A lot of issues (like ammo sprite) solved just with brainstorming some names. Granted, perhaps no one cared or felt creative enough to come up with something. If it's the latter, please, ask away. Don't even need to stick with my suggestions. I'm sure there's plenty of people here that could brainstorm cool magical sounding names. I'd say it's part of the fun.

After spending an hour writing those, it just occurred to me that perhaps the current names of weapons/items are deliberately literal because no one bothered yet to write the awesome names waiting in a sticky note over at devs team

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• There's a handful of traps/ambushes here and there but there could be more, without making gameplay too frustrating. A couple of open spots in Farmhouse could use this, like that moment crossing the broken bridge at the river. A teleporter ambush spawning two gargoyles while jumping over the rocks, for example. Nothing too extreme but enough to keep on alert. I like the zombie ambush after the Skull&Dragon key door in Countryside. I hope we get to see more like those in the next hubs.
• Not sure if it's included in the complete version but I was expecting a boss at the end of the hub. Are there any bosses a la Hexen II?
• I found all secrets except the one close to the Dragon Key in Farmhouse. It says that I need more power. I tried using the golem transformation, I tried with the Berserker Hand while transformed, I tried with golem in Hard mode (thinking that maybe it was tied to the highest difficulty) but I haven't been able to break that wall yet. Is it bugged or what am I missing? I didn't tried golem+berserker+hard because I didn't have any hand left by that point.
• It slightly bothers me there are houses without doors in the Lost Village...
• In the Fire key door in Farmhouse, if you hug the door, projectiles can hit you from the other side.
• Some maps could really use a better distribution of health pickups. For example, the Factory has 90% of the total ammount of potions in the map in these stairs and the two previous rooms (around the torch pickup), basically the latest parts of the level...:
  
• There's a misaligned texture to the left of the fireplace in the Snake Key room (marked with the crosshair in the screenshot):
  
• I guess these are rooms for the skybox effect? Probably not meant to appear on map (Garden, Countryside):
  
  

Alright, that was a lot. I get carried away easily... I swear this is the last one.

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When pondering about this game I came to realize not only some flaws (or should I say yet-to-polish stuff) but also its virtues, strong points and what I see as its "main identity". Let me praise:

• I like the map layout, it's fun to navigate and I ended up using almost every single item I found (I finished hard mode with two red potions in bag), which means they are not just to fill the map but there're always moments when you can feel they're useful.
• I like there's no actual "first key" as I thought at first. You can either choose to go pick the Iron key or the Snake key first. Adds to the replayability, always welcome.
• I like the decorations, even if some are slightly offset at the moment (haha). Some blood stains in corpses wouldn't hurt, tho.
• I like the textures of everything: the water, the leaves, the rocks (I'm a sucker for nature looking textures...).
• I FRIGGING LOVE THE SKYBOXES!!11!11! Even with the mismatched moons.
• It probably is because of the clouds...
• Love the spritework. Animations are dang smooth for the most part (except for the cultists, who drop dead in a pretty lame way). The skull present in banners could be included more throughout the lands to give out the feeling of conquest.
• Love the music. Luke Jansen did a fantastic job to set the medieval fantasy tone.
• Marvelous voice acting for NecroGuy. Evil laughter never gets old.
• Some said sounds were weak but I like them a lot. All shooty weapons sound powerful (the issue with the lack of "oomph" is more visual, imo). Sword sounds weak and there's a lack of ambient noises as someone else pointed out, I'll give you that. Heck, even the footsteps sound relaxing in some way.

And finally, what I feel it's the main selling point of the game: The transformations. I never played Shadowcaster, but it seems that game also had the same. In my case, my first experience with that facet of gameplay in an FPS is in HoN and it's handled so dang well, from what I was able to see. Really fun to use them, really fun to whack a zombie or bite a cultist in the ankles to his death, really interesting to get access to new areas with that. I can totally see you guys nailed it. It's the most fun part of the game, imo.

On the other hand, maybe is just me, but I kinda feel the transformations are presented too late for the new player (took me two hours to get my hands on my first one first time I've played). And it's a little sad thinking that maybe someone don't bother enough and miss that for not sticking a little longer until seeing how fun that is. Yeah, probably is just me. But anyways, here's my last suggestion: a tutorial/entry level for the full release, a single level that includes one, just one, transformation powerup to reach the exit. Think of it as a condensed hub. When I was comparing this game to Heretic/Hexen I made the comparison with their "main identities" (at least from my perspective): the Tome of Power of Heretic and the "shady nature of its puzzles" in Hexen. Both games feature their respective "main identity" in the first level. And it works so well. Granted, Heretic's ToP it's in a secret but it's a really easy one. And Hexen has the bell puzzle to tell the player "Oh, yeah. This is what this game is about" from the start. I feel that is something that would be beneficial to HoN too. A single level before the Countryside, featuring a cliff or something that you need to transform in a flying thing to cross, for example. I didn't said golem or snake because I feel that, if the new player likes it, he/she is gonna be like "oh, that was so cool, I wonder when I'm gonna find that transformation again". It isn't in the first hub, so it will keep the player invested even further after seeing new ones. At the end of this hypothetical single map, just clear the items out and the adventure starts like in this demo. Nothing breaks (hopefully).

Ok, if you read everything... sorry and thanks for your time. Hope at least one line of text be helpful to you.

I don't think I've got more to say, tbh, except that I really like the work that has been put into this game. I'm gonna definitely support it when it fully releases and I'm pretty excited for whatever else it's gonna be in there. I think this has a lot of potential to fill a niche that other supposed "spiritual successors" of Heretic/Hexen haven't been able to fill, at least for me (heck, I even think I'm gonna like this one more than Amid Evil). I only hope it won't become too niche. I want others to also play it and enjoy it, after all.

Looking forward to v1.0!


It's almost 4 am! What am I doing with my life!

[Emmanuelexe]

For the golem transformation, hit a little over the center of the crack sprite, it should work, there is no need to use the berserker fist.
Making elements weapons like ice not working on Ice Golem could kill the fun, its not a rpg game and even in RPG you don't have that (or ice vs ice with low damage but same problem)

Automap stuff is all fixed in the next update
Maybe we could nerf the stun effect on some enemies yeah

Thx for some bugs reports!

We will announce soon a date for the full release, now we won't change the gameplay with all the ideas but we will remember it
(for after 1.0)

EDIT: We have a release date for the full version!

Annoncements: Full Release date!
Hands of Necromancy will be released on June 20!
At 10AM (UTC-8)
Prepare your spells, prepare your transformations, we hope to see you in the world of Hands of Necromancy!

[Lagi]

that's good feedback, RKD. I agree with everything i think (maybe except the Amid Evil - combat there is much more refine, like the sword projectile is also blocking enemy projectiles, or mace spikes are soo satisfying).

i agree the names are dull, and RKD proposition could spark some interest in them.

Make ice golem resistant to ice. It make sense. Ice ring is the best weapon. "not a rpg" - games emulate some fictional world in EVERY game. in heretic you couldnt hit ghost with a physical weapon - never seen anyone saying it kill the fun - HOWEVER not being able to hit ghosts with powered stick in Heretic, i think pissed off lots of players, that go out of ammo, and think using tome of power would be clever.

i think some weapon should not work underwater (or work differently). for gameplay/thematic reason. fire staff - water extinguish fire; ice ring - it freezes water so it cant create projectile, like in air; tornado - this could work, because water current is the medium now,

Could you left pain lock for sword as it currently is? You nailed this melee weapon. And i want to play demo again just to try, if i can complete it with sword only. With pain nerf it could become much more wearing.

[RKD]

For the golem transformation, hit a little over the center of the crack sprite, it should work, there is no need to use the berserker fist.

Oh, I see. I went to check and that did the trick, thanks! I guess the cracking texture is slightly offset then.

Btw, I forgot to mention:

• Torch item in Factory is reachable but jumping from the first step of the stairs next to the crack. Maybe it was intended?
• I haven't heared "chasing" sounds when monsters are active and the player is outside of their line of sight. Are these absent (like ambient noises) or are they just very low in volume? I use speakers so I may've missed them.
• Pickup sounds are... not sure how to describe them... Not that bad but they could be better?

i think some weapon should not work underwater (or work differently). for gameplay/thematic reason.

While I agree it would be cool, I think the issue lays in the engine. My understanding of scripting stuff in GZDoom is still very limited (so anyone is free to correct me) but I believe this is not that easy to do, since "water" is just a 3D floor tagged as swimmable. I'm not sure if it's possible to check if the player is in a sector underwater or above it and change weapons behaviour accordingly, at least not without some complex zscript-witching-hackery. I don't know the intricacies very well, but I guess it would be just "too hard to do for what its worth"?

Could you left pain lock for sword as it currently is?

Hey, that totally sounds like a nice gimmick effect (assuming monster pain chances were less likely overall). I'm guessing it should only have a 100% pain chance only when "powered" (with "ammo" left). If one runs out of "ammo", the damage weakens as it currently is and pain chance could also reduce, to keep weapon balance. It would still be a high risk, high reward approach against melee and the player would still get rekt when dealing with ranged enemies, since they're very likely to hit you before you close the distance (specially zombies and tri-fire cultists). Yeah, it could totally work, imo.

EDIT: Noted the release date and checked the hour difference. It'd be available at 15:00 hs in my utc. Awesome

[Emmanuelexe]

"Torch item in Factory is reachable but jumping from the first step of the stairs next to the crack. Maybe it was intended?"

It was fixed :>

[Graf Zahl]

A small issue with the required specs: Even for macOS it says "OpenGL 4.2", but Macs only support 4.1, even for better hardware

[Rachael]

Thanks, updated the minimum to Metal.

[Ozymandias81]

While I can't remember atm in which sounds folder they are, but some of them have a mistyped .oga format instead of .ogg