[Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] v3.1 released (p204)
Forum rules
The Projects forums are only for projects. If you are asking questions about a project, either find that project's thread, or start a thread in the General section instead.
Got a cool project idea but nothing else? Put it in the project ideas thread instead!
Projects for any Doom-based engine (especially 3DGE) are perfectly acceptable here too.
Please read the full rules for more details.
The Projects forums are only for projects. If you are asking questions about a project, either find that project's thread, or start a thread in the General section instead.
Got a cool project idea but nothing else? Put it in the project ideas thread instead!
Projects for any Doom-based engine (especially 3DGE) are perfectly acceptable here too.
Please read the full rules for more details.
-
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 am
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Such a statement would be futile. You can't say you're not appeasing the moralists (I'm using this as the least inflammatory word I can think of) while giving them 100% of what they asked for.
Anyway, I must say that I deplore the hate I see towards Rachael over this. She's been level-headed and does not deserve such a harsh treatment.
Anyway, I must say that I deplore the hate I see towards Rachael over this. She's been level-headed and does not deserve such a harsh treatment.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:05 pm
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
I agree 100%. Rachael has done superbly.Phredreeke wrote:Anyway, I must say that I deplore the hate I see towards Rachael over this. She's been level-headed and does not deserve such a harsh treatment.
On a comepletely unrelated note, there's something that confuses me.
Where does this idea that there's some sort of connection between the Randy character in BoA and Marisa Heit?
Other than the identical last name, I see no connection whatsoever, to me they're completely separate entities.
I think more people should realize this. Less friendly fire that way.
-
- Posts: 272
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:59 am
- Preferred Pronouns: He/Him
- Operating System Version (Optional): Void Linux
- Graphics Processor: Intel (Modern GZDoom)
- Location: Independence, KS, USA
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Because Marisa Heit's previous name is Randi Heit, previous as in pre-transition. Hence, it's deadnaming.Zenon wrote:Where does this idea that there's some sort of connection between the Randy character in BoA and Marisa Heit?
Other than the identical last name, I see no connection whatsoever, to me they're completely separate entities.
I think more people should realize this. Less friendly fire that way.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:05 pm
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
But if everyone agreed to disassociate the name, there wouldn't be a problem with the name. By making the previous name taboo, you're still giving it a meaning, just a negative one.KynikossDragonn wrote:Because Marisa Heit's previous name is Randi Heit, previous as in pre-transition. Hence, it's deadnaming.
If we treat that name as one we've never heard before until now, there'd be a whole lot less conflict.
We should treat Marisa Heit as having always been Marisa Heit, right from the very beginning. For example, Marisa did wonderfully as ZDoom's founder and lead developer for a long time.
Randi Heit is just a Blade of Agony character which bears no connection or resemblance. Nothing more, nothing less.
It might sound crazy, but wouldn't it make more sense to think those who are condemning the Randi Heit character by saying he's a portrayal of Marisa Heit are the ones deadnaming, right?
Because they're associating the name Randi with Marisa.
I'm not trying to troll here, I'm trying to clear up some conflict in the community.
Last edited by Zenon on Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:12 am, edited 6 times in total.
-
- Posts: 293
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:30 pm
- Preferred Pronouns: They/Them
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Please don't try justifying deadnaming for any reason. If its offensive to Marisa, then its their duty to rectify the situation.Zenon wrote:But if everyone agreed to disassociate the name, there wouldn't be a problem with the name. By making the previous name taboo, you're still giving it a meaning, just a negative one.KynikossDragonn wrote:Because Marisa Heit's previous name is Randi Heit, previous as in pre-transition. Hence, it's deadnaming.
If we treat that name as one we've never heard before until now, there'd be a whole lot less conflict.
Marisa Heit has always been Marisa Heit, right from the very beginning. Marisa did wonderfully as ZDoom's founder and lead developer for a long time.
Randi Heit is just a Blade of Agony character. Nothing more, nothing less.
It might sound crazy, but I think those who are condemning the Randi Heit character by saying he's a portrayal of Marisa Heit are the ones deadnaming, right? Because they're associating the character and the name Randi with Marisa.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:05 pm
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
I'm not gonna deny that deadnaming can be bad.ravage wrote:Please don't try justifying deadnaming for any reason. If its offensive to Marisa, then its their duty to rectify the situation.
I just personally think it's not something worth fighting over in this specific case, and thought up a solution.
I get what you're saying though.
We should wait and see what Marisa says. Like Enjay's case, Marisa might find it inoffensive, and we'd've all been worrying over nothing.
-
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:29 pm
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Rachel has been very, very patient with everyone involved, and I have a great deal of respect for her because of it. It takes patience beyond what I'm capable of to handle something like this in such a calm manner.
That having been said: I personally think Tormentor's actions paint him as...well, immature. In the context of past situations where people had criticisms of Torm's work, and what Torm did in response to that--well, this isn't the first time that Tormentor has used Realm667 as a bargaining chip. And seeing Torm try to throw his playtesters under the bus, when Torm is the leader of the project--I was appalled. You don't DO that, especially not to people who have been trying to help you with such a massive project for years.
And about the situation with the "tribute" to Marisa--I agree that we should ask Marisa's opinion of it, but I also think that greater care should've been taken in the first place. It's all well and good to give each other a good-natured roasting, but there's a fine line between good-natured jokes between friends and insults, and the key to staying on the friendly side of that line is to be careful not to cross it. It's also kind of important to pay attention to who you're making fun of, lest you, I don't know, make a joke that isn't socially acceptable within the context of who they are.
That having been said: I personally think Tormentor's actions paint him as...well, immature. In the context of past situations where people had criticisms of Torm's work, and what Torm did in response to that--well, this isn't the first time that Tormentor has used Realm667 as a bargaining chip. And seeing Torm try to throw his playtesters under the bus, when Torm is the leader of the project--I was appalled. You don't DO that, especially not to people who have been trying to help you with such a massive project for years.
And about the situation with the "tribute" to Marisa--I agree that we should ask Marisa's opinion of it, but I also think that greater care should've been taken in the first place. It's all well and good to give each other a good-natured roasting, but there's a fine line between good-natured jokes between friends and insults, and the key to staying on the friendly side of that line is to be careful not to cross it. It's also kind of important to pay attention to who you're making fun of, lest you, I don't know, make a joke that isn't socially acceptable within the context of who they are.
-
- Posts: 3886
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:15 am
- Preferred Pronouns: She/Her
- Operating System Version (Optional): (btw I use) Arch
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: Vigo, Galicia
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
I have to say that I'm partly responsible for this having happened, digging through the files out of curiosity and reporting my findings to others in the community. But I think if it hadn't been me, it could have been anyone else, sooner or later. People get curious, data mining is a very popular thing after all. Still, I appreciate that changes are being made to clean up (including things that apparently weren't meant to be there). Overall, I think many people have been too quick to jump at the throats of the dev team, so I tip my hat to how Rachael has been handling things both here and on the project's GitHub page.
In regards to the "tribute", and as someone who's had to deal with transphobia very often, I still feel icky about Marisa being represented as an ugly, balding, bearded old drunkard. Toilet humor is one thing, but this one comes off as an insult to someone's personal identity.
In regards to the "tribute", and as someone who's had to deal with transphobia very often, I still feel icky about Marisa being represented as an ugly, balding, bearded old drunkard. Toilet humor is one thing, but this one comes off as an insult to someone's personal identity.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:05 pm
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
What if you didn't treat it as a representation of Marisa? I've been encouraging others to do the same, further up the page if you'd like to take a look.Marisa Kirisame wrote:I still feel icky about Marisa being represented as an ugly, balding, bearded old drunkard. Toilet humor is one thing, but this one comes off as an insult to someone's personal identity.
-
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:29 pm
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
It uses Marisa's dead name, was written and intended to be based on Marisa at a time when she didn't call herself Marisa, and is one of many such "tributes" in Blade of Agony.Zenon wrote: What if you didn't treat it as a representation of Marisa? I've been encouraging others to do the same, further up the page if you'd like to take a look.
I, uh, don't think that argument passes muster.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:05 pm
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Fair enough.
Here's hoping Marisa looks cool in the next update then.
Here's hoping Marisa looks cool in the next update then.
-
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:43 am
- Location: Could be the chair, the floor, or the bed.
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
The character's been completely renamed in the current version. He is now Lt. Haggis "Gear" McMutton.
-
- Posts: 3886
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:15 am
- Preferred Pronouns: She/Her
- Operating System Version (Optional): (btw I use) Arch
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: Vigo, Galicia
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Heh, that name couldn't be more stereotypically Scottish even if it tried.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:05 pm
- Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
I bet nazis really grind his gears
-
-
- Posts: 26561
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
- Location: Scotland
Re: [Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Release v3 taken down (p20
Clearly a stereotype and an attack on Scots.
Yes, I know it's a Monkey Island reference.
Edit: video added (couldn't find a better one unfortunately).
Yes, I know it's a Monkey Island reference.
Edit: video added (couldn't find a better one unfortunately).